Viant Technology Inc. — Call Transcript 2026

Afternoon. I'm Laura Martin. I'm the senior media and internet analyst here at Needham, and I am here to welcome Tim and Chris Vanderhook, who are the CEO and CFO of Viant respectively. Tim is the co-founder and CEO, and Chris is the co-founder and COO of Viant Technology, ticker symbol DSP, where they have built the second largest independent DSP after Trade Desk. Their Household ID and recent acquisition of IRIS ID and TVision add unique data assets, which they are driving market share gains from competitors. Before Viant, they co-founded the streaming service Xumo, which was ultimately acquired by Comcast, and they made the high-profile acquisition of Myspace from Fox in 2011 for just $35 million after Fox had originally bought it six years before that at $580 million. Welcome you guys. Thanks. So nice to- Thanks for having us have you here. We are shrewd businessmen. You are a shrewd businessman. You always have been. Somehow MySpace is still in our bio. I know, but I really like that statistic. We're going to change that. Yeah. That you buy for $35 what Fox buys for $600. We still lost money. Yeah. You didn't lose near as much as Fox. That's true. That's true. Everything's relative in the end, right? Yeah. Anyway. Okay, let's start with recent earnings and go from there, and I'm going to try to find questions that pit you against each other, which I've never been successful doing. The first one I want to start with is leadership, because you guys are really different kind of leaders it seems to me. I want to start with generative AI is changing, it's transformational. My question is, what are the different things in leadership you have to do during a transformational technology change that maybe weren't relevant three or four years ago when things were more just execution excellence? Yeah. I don't know if it's how we operate, which is I'll just talk how we operate. We get into the weeds. We're a part of the team that's developing it. We understand it from the ground up because we want to be able to speak to it at a very granular level because we're always out talking to customers, talking to investors. Yeah. We want to make sure we know what we're talking about. Even if I look at some of the newer things that happen, like ViantAI, which we released 2 years ago. That prototype was built by myself after the engineering team said it's not possible, the PM said it's not possible. I basically got pissed off and built it myself and then delivered the working prototype to them. I think that's the difference of a founder-led business versus that of the managerial class, some of the bigger companies. The founders have ultimate optimism and I don't really care about optimism. I just want to get the job done. For me, I like to dive in there and actually see if it's possible for myself. If I hit a wall, well, I can't blame anybody else. Okay. I. Chris, what about you? just to tag onto the other part of Tim's story there. When we went public, we had this vision, a product vision of autonomous advertising, which was powered by artificial intelligence. This is pre-OpenAI, ChatGPT, all that, right? We had a lab, and we had a guy who ran that lab, and he was an applied scientist. What we've came to figure out over three years was, I don't know what he applied any of the science to because we weren't getting any product out of it. It was more research. It was really that frustration. I think just as founders who run businesses, you typically find the good ones are, to Tim's point, getting into the weeds. We felt that we needed to be first. We wanted to be first. That's what precipitates change in an organization, and that's why Tim, over a week, basically spent his vacation doing that. On the other side of the coin, just as you run a company, what we do constantly, we're paranoid all the time, we look around corners, and we want to know where the boogeyman is. We want to know what could be lurking. We sit in the RTB infrastructure. We're in programmatic. RTB, real-time bidding. The real-time bidding infrastructure. We look at what could be possible threats. Oftentimes those threats become opportunities. When you look, AI, only recently in the last few months have we had this AI apocalypse, but it's something that we've been looking at, that we think it's an opportunity. At the same time, what we don't want to do, although we don't think it's going to be en masse in the next year or two, we do want to be prepared for that. We want to be able to enable our clients for that. Just getting back to the leadership question. Three days ago, I just told my assistant, "Cancel all my standing one-on-one meetings with all the department heads. I don't care about that anymore. I want to meet with these five people next week, and next Friday when I meet with you, I'll tell you the next five meetings I want in the next week." I think as a founder, you're addressing the biggest problems in the company. You need to give the business context to the people working on the hardest problems. You need to see it through and make sure that things get done. Versus before, just the general delegation of tasks. I just don't see that working in the future. If I have an IR problem, I'm meeting with Nick, the head of my IR all week long. Solving the questions that he's getting asked, understanding how to frame it, on what the opportunity is versus the risk. All of these types of things. The AI story I gave you, it was pure product and engineering at that point with the data team. To me, I just view it as what's the biggest problem? What's the biggest need for the business? We just attack it because the business can't move forward until you solve that problem, and then you're able to actually move the business forward. One of the big controversies that's erupted on this stage today, because you guys are, I think, the 10th AdTech CEO team I've had on the stage is, do you think that generative AI agents will be built on new rails or on the programmatic rails? The answer's both. It's on the programmatic rails in the near term. I think in the long term, it's on the agentic rails. Okay. The question is timing. In zero to three years, very low probability that it's on AdCP, the new agentic rail. Yeah, MCP MCP. That's on the new rails inside of There's a founder who called it AdCP. Now, I shouldn't have said that, yes. MCP as a way to communicate, absolutely. The question is 0-3 years, low probability, 3-5 years, mid-probability, 5 years plus, high probability. It might take 20. Correct. Yeah. There's so much money, there's so much at stake if you this up. Absolutely. Everyone talks about the hallucinations a lot. We've got hallucinations basically solved internally because I think most people think of AI like it can hallucinate. A lot of times when you make a statement into ChatGPT, it's unclear what you were saying. When we view AI, we're building robots that do the same thing over and over and over and over again. Right. That's the way that you actually do it, then those robots become very good at solving the errors. I think we're deep in the weeds of it. ViantAI is an agentic platform internally, it's riding the RTB rails today. We fully plan that it will switch to a different rail at some point in the future, it's just a question of time on when that is, we'll be ready for it, no problem. Okay. I can give you a good example of where we've experienced this in the past. In 2009, 2010, Tim and I became obsessed with We were watching online video happen- We wanted to look to the future, we were obsessed with a television will eventually be internet connected- Content will be streamed, not delivered over copper into your house. At that time, we were going around to all these industry shows for broadcasters, this technology was out there called IPTV. That's what it was called. We literally tried to hostile takeover-bid a private company called Move Networks- that was early in the space. Which has become Sling. Yes. Oh. We weren't successful in that acquisition, but we immediately started building Xumo. This was in late 2010. Yep. We believed that it was a sure thing it was going to happen, and it was going to happen in the next two to three years. We built Xumo. We burned so much capital, and we had installations with all the big television OEMs. We were getting our software installed on chipsets. We were so early. It didn't hit until 2020. 10 years later. Correct. 10 years later, we burned an insane amount of capital. Well, you probably got it back when you sold it to Comcast. We did. You know what? We were first. It should have never sold. Yes. Had we not done that, we would have maintained control. Had we maintained control, Xumo would be an independently, publicly traded company in the billions. It's worth $2 billion today, last valuation. That's what happens when you're a founder. If you miss on the timing, you've got to raise more capital. Yeah. You lose control, you have an idiot making the decision. That's it. Even when you were right, you were wrong. Yes. Right. You can still be right, but you're still wrong. Yeah. Well, it's like Wall Street on linear TV. We were right about linear TV. Correct. It's just going to take 30 years, not 10. Correct. It might take 50. Right. People might have to die. Correct. If you're too early, it's just as bad as being wrong. Yep if you're getting paid. It's the same. Same outcome. Same outcome. Let's talk about one of the things I wanted to ask, just on this last thing on leadership. One of the most interesting things that's being said is that maybe we need to get rid of functional organizations. No more marketing, no more product, no more engineering. That what we need are these SWAT teams, where you put teams of five people or 10 people from all different areas, and you say, "This is your deliverable. In six months, I want you to do this because we're getting requested by clients. Yeah. If you don't, you all lose your jobs. If you do, you get to get the next project." It's a big idea because it would destroy traditional architectures. Yeah you could implement that, or a startup would start like that. They would never have functional designations. Yeah. Big companies would be doomed because they can't get rid of the silos. Yeah. Do you have an opinion on that? Yeah. Why don't you start? It's what I think we try to put in practice almost every day. Okay. Not formally per se, where we say there's no more marketing, there's no more engineering. They certainly are there. Every time, we have our top priorities, and that's basically what we do. Let's say that you're going to build a new product. Yeah. Okay? I'll use our Outcomes product that we launched at CES- Yeah as an example. To successfully launch that, you can't just have a product manager. Why don't you tell them what it is first, so they know what you're working with? Yeah. Outcomes is our first fully autonomous advertising product, but it's for performance-based marketing clients. Right. It basically is fully automated. They give us four pieces of info, the advertiser name, the budget, what your goal is, you want sales, and what's the flight dates of the campaign? From there, the AI runs. They give you the creative, presumably. They give us the creative. Okay. From there, the AI runs the entire campaign. It picks the media plan, auto-generates it. It decides how much budget it's going to allocate. It is in charge of all the optimization. It constantly regenerates new sites, new apps. It runs the measurement. It's incredible. However, to get this product, traditionally, a product manager would scope it out, they'd write a PRD for it, they'd give it to the engineer, they'd build it, and then they just expect that these things come out perfect. They don't. You have to get people from the customer. You've got to get customer feedback on what kind of guardrails does this need? It needs brand safety. They need transparency. Okay, great. You have to bring in the product marketing team as well, because the minute we launch this, we need salespeople ready to go. You have to bring in sales enablement and training to learn how the product works so they can help train the salespeople. That is kind of what you're talking about. Yeah these SWAT teams. Tim and I also just started this kind of along the lines, we don't want these one-on-ones, but what we do is a standup call. It's the most expensive call in our company because there's probably about 20, 25 people on this call. Isn't it just on internet protocol Zoom? Which is free. It is. It's still an hour of 30 people's time. Yes. I see. It's expensive from. From a. personnel- Yeah. Okay. Every week, those topics can vary, but they're our top priorities. Not everybody talks, and they know. Is it presentation or Q&A? No, it's just us. It's we run it. We run it and say, "These are the- We drill people with questions. What's the problem? I ask the next person. I see. We play judge and jury as well. "Nope, this is the right answer. Move forward. That's what we're trying to do, is move at a pace that's very fast. Break down silos. Something's stuck again the second week in a row. What's the limiting factor? What's the issue? We have all the I shouldn't say all, but we have a lot of context across the organization, and that person, who might be an engineer or a product manager or a salesperson, maybe doesn't have all the context. We can provide that. That has proved very valuable. It moves things quickly through the org. It goes back to the original point that Tim said. We don't believe in what we call the managerial class of the CTO. You're worthless. Yeah. You just preside over these meetings. If you went to Harvard Business School, Stanford Business School, you don't have the domain expertise, you are worthless. That was a bill of goods that got sold to everybody, it turned out not to be true. You just have an expensive college bill you've got to pay back. I think I would probably disagree with you on that. By the way. Being one of those Harvard people. Okay. Let me just also bring up, just to answer the question, the absolute answer is yes. SWAT teams with heavy domain expertise are the future. Just look at Stanford Engineering School. Big Tech used to suck all the talent that came out of all these schools, just looking at Stanford, number one. Okay. They used to hire 50% of kids coming out of that school. Right. It's down to 7%. Yeah. Why? Because they don't have domain expertise. You're not valuable in business today because AI has the coding expertise. It can help you get these things done. Right. To me, I think what you're going to see by big tech is many people are going to lose their jobs, unless you are absolutely critical with domain expertise. That's it. You have good human judgment, or you can interact with people, because you're still going to have to manage people. Sure. Yep. Relationships are still important. Yeah. Okay. Very interesting. Let's go to the quarter, which was excellent. Just to recap, but I should let you do it because 18% revenue growth, guiding to 23% revenue growth, compared to The Trade Desk at 12% guiding to 8%, and almost every other today, Nexxen came out, and I think theirs was highest under yours, which was 13% revenue growth and guiding to higher. The point is, you guys are double, okay, 50% higher than the rest of industry and accelerating as you get, you said every quarter will accelerate. Talk about what's driving that really formidable growth that the rest of the industry, because we cover 10 of these, nobody's close to you guys. Yeah. What's driving that, and why does that continue? It's just because we have the best product. It's not like in the end yet, but there's certain portions that are execution. I think advertisers are very smart. There's lots of data. They measure everything. Ultimately, it comes down to who has the best product in connected television. The most thing I'm most proud about, those are great stats, and we're really proud of it. We didn't mention that EBITDA was up 81%. We should. Cash flow was up quite a bit as well. From a management perspective, we're doing a great job. We flat out have the best DSP, independent, buy side only, and we think that's the right way. Others will disagree. Ultimately, our growth rate in CTV was up 40% for the third year in a row. It's like, how many years can you put up before investors figure it out? Our stock is down today, apparently another year. We'll wait till next year. I think when it comes down to it is we just flat out have the best product in CTV. We think that is where the decision is made. We have Iris, which gives you content-level intelligence. It's exclusive data. We just did the acquisition of TVision, which customers are about to get the benefit of that. Now a customer can target at the show level. We get the lowest price because we have the best bidding algorithm that's out there. AI Bidding has 90% adoption. It was the fastest-growing adopted product that we ever released. Now with TVision, we now have the data from a U.S.-based panel feeding us the data before the ad break hits. About attention. Around not just attention, but reach. What's the co-viewing, the number of people in the room watching this content? What's the demographics of those that are in there? Are there eyes on the screen, or are they looking at the phone? That's attention. I think when you think about the data that we have before the ad break hits, now we're able to buy the ad way more effectively than any competitor, then single-handedly, the product that's needed. Today, when an advertiser buys, they buy from Google Direct for YouTube, Prime Video direct from Amazon. They buy linear TV from all the television networks, and it's measured by Nielsen. YouTube measures themselves. Prime Video measures themselves. The open internet provides an actual statistic. You have four different measurement systems that are measuring. For the first time, TVision puts all four of those, we measure all of them as an independent provider. Now you can understand linear. NBC provided value number 1. Peacock might've been low. YouTube, we see over and over, it's not as high as everyone thinks. Prime Video, depending on when you bought. Having unified measurement, which is there is no alternative product to it, that is what is the number 1 need for marketers today. I think as we go forward, our revenue in CTV will continue to accelerate. The overall metrics of the business will continue to accelerate. But it's really due to that it's just the best product. Over time, advertisers figure it out, I think investors will figure it out, too. Why wouldn't you sell, if that TVision really does such a critical need in the measurement space to put walled gardens versus the open internet, why wouldn't you sell that, productize it to sell it separately also? As a measurement product. Sure Maybe other DSPs can integrate it, but. We do. We do sell it. Advertisers buy the measurement, the content owners buy the measurement. When it comes to media activation, that's exclusive to our DSP. That makes sense. Yeah. We are garnering revenue across the board. All of our competitors would like to have it. They could've bought it as of last month. They could've, and some of them licensed the data. We chose to acquire it, and there's contracts out that we're going to let expire, and we will pull that data back in to be exclusive to our DSP. Now, why do we want to do that? Nielsen is the currency in linear TV. We're not interested in being a currency from measurement. The old way was measuring potential reach. We'll just say that's what Nielsen does a good job at. When it comes down to being the currency today, this is the RTB transaction. I'm about to buy an ad from Peacock. What's the price of this ad? We think by putting it into a DSP, that's the best way to understand the value of one ad impression versus another. Right. You have this thing called CPM adjusted. Attention-Adjusted CPM. That's what it is. Yeah. Attention-Adjusted. If there's three people sitting in the room, you can pay a little more and win the bid because you're reaching three people, not one person. Exactly. If somebody's not paying attention, you're bidding half as much because they're not paying attention anyway. Exactly. It's a low impact CPM. Just to add to that, the only people that have that information are the advertisers that work with Viant. They're the only ones who have the information ahead of time. We represent the advertiser, we want them to have the strategic advantage. When you sell it to third parties, it can't be ahead of the activation. If I was selling it to Peacock, they're going to raise the price. Do you see what I mean? No. I don't see what you mean. If Peacock was aware there are three females I see are 18 to 54, they would raise the price of the CPM for that one ad impression. I see. How does the product that you're selling to third parties differ from what you're using for activation? It's delayed. It's delayed. It's just not in real time. It'll tell you. Okay Let's say for the month. Oh Peacock had. Average co-viewing 60% attention. It had 1.4 people on average watching. Per screen, all that involved. Right. Really, marketers. Okay. That's good to know when you're. Yeah media planning. Yes. You might commit a certain amount of budget, let's say, to NBCUniversal Peacock. But really what you want to do is, Peacock has 5,000 different titles. in CTV underneath their umbrella. Yeah. Every show behaves differently. That's true. Right? Second by second, it's different. Right. The marketer wants to have the advantage of the information to know this impression right here, before this ad pod, before the javelin throw in the Olympics. Right What is the co-viewership? How many people are in the room? How many of them are actually paying attention second by second? If it has really high attention signals, you might bid up. You might bid a little more. If it has low, you might bid less or not at all. The point of advertising is to grab the attention of the consumer so that they're watching, so they watch for as long of your 30 seconds as you have them. You have to gain the attention of the actual consumer. Persuade them. Yes. Do you guys feel like this pushes you into content? Because content is a really big driver to whether people sit in the room and watch the full ad. We license the data to the content owners and it's Netflix, it's Prime Video. I was thinking the ad. the ad. The ad content, not the programming. Absolutely content. That's what's on the product pipeline. we've showed off ViantAI, which does autonomous media planning. It implements it executes the campaign, it optimizes after reading the reports. Making the ad is the next critical component. I'd listen to John Wren of Omnicom, and he mentioned it's all about media, and I think where the profits currently are is media, but I think you're going to see creative and media come back together. the best example I can give you is if I know I'm going to show a 30-second spot on "The Kardashians" on Friday night, why wouldn't I make a custom 30-second ad for that? now with GenAI, you have the ability to make that ad for $1,000, whereas before, TV ad production cost $1 million for 10 spots. they're all basically the same, slightly different. if I know where the ad is going to be placed ahead of time, I can actually make a custom creative. when you put the creative matching the content, the performance, the attention, the persuadability, and ultimately the buy rate, the conversion rate into sales skyrockets, and that's where advertising is going to have a renaissance and where GenAI plays a big role. What I was thinking on product roadmap is since you can tell ahead of time, you can A/B test five ads that you create. Let's say they deliver you one piece of creative that they've approved. You can do five things. You can modify. Turning the watch over, you can turn it into blues, then do A/B testing over the first five ad blocks then say, "Okay, the one that works best is the red one that doesn't move. Yeah. Serve that one the rest of the time. It feels like that's a natural place for you guys to go, given that you can do these very fine distinctions about what's holding customer attention versus what's getting people to look at their phone. Yeah. What GenAI gives you the ability right now, a marketer like Molson Coors, one of our customers, they only have 10 spots for Coors Light. Why? Because the ad production shoot is $1 million plus dollars. They can't go do another shoot. The longevity, it takes forever. Yeah The timeframe. Now you can start with a baseline ad. Let's say it has 60% attention, and the goal is improvement. Yes. 60%-65%, 65%-70%. That way, the working media dollars are actually working harder. Yeah. You're leveraging creative as another lever to do that. If you look at a trend over in the social space, if you look at Meta, they do all of their Advantage+ system when those e-commerce marketers come in. They control all the targeting and the media optimization. Meta controls all of that. Okay. What is the advertiser responsible for? Creative. The trend in that for the last two years is more and more and more creative. They have to pump out so much creative. What Meta needs is to be able to make, whatever you're watching on Instagram Reels, if you're looking at mine I can't chip worth a damn right now in golf, I'm just watching short game chip stuff, next thing you know, what am I getting? I'm getting an ad for a golf aid for chipping. They have ads matched to micro-categories of content. That shows you. Some of these advertisers are pumping out hundreds of pieces of creative every month. It's cheaper than television creative. That is where the future is going. A Molson Coors needs to be able to create hundreds or thousands of variations of creative to match the content. Is it NFL football? Cool. Make a football-themed ad. Is it Kardashians? Make it women-themed. Whatever it is, you want to theme the creative so that it matches the content. To Tim's point, it grabs attention. Every one percentage point that the marketer gets in attention, every increase- it's a 1% increase in awareness for their product, a 1% increase in ad recall, and what we need to do now is tie Outcomes, the sales. What does that translate into sales? You would have a different business model because wouldn't you take a percentage of the lift in the outcome and the percentage sales lift? A commission on selling the product. We'll see where the business model goes to, but ultimately, if you have an advertising engine that moves product off the shelves, that's very valuable. Whatever the right business model is, it'll reveal itself to us. Okay, you think you're moving. You think that this new TVision with the attention actually helps you drive Outcomes which then maybe implies a different business model for you? Over the long term, it implies a different business model. Today, as a percentage of the spend is the way that it operates today. That's a frictionless way to drive revenue. Obviously, we're public, and we're worried about quarterly results- Yeah throwing a brand-new business model- Yeah as a public company is harder. Risky business, yeah. Certainly, if you're making the ads, you're automating the creation of the ad campaign, the optimization of the campaign. In a self-reinforcing loop. That is very valuable. I think with the acquisition of TVision. Our focus on strategic proprietary data that's valuable, that we've described, we're transforming from what was a once media execution platform, like The Trade Desk or DV360, into an advertising intelligence company. That's where I see our transition moving, one that offers proprietary data that doesn't exist anywhere else, independent measurement, and then media execution, all in a self-reinforcing loop. To me, that's an advertising intelligence company, and that's our future. One of the things that a lot of DSPs have done is layer in data, like 300 data providers when you're making audience segments. Yeah. Are you now in channel conflict with those because you have these two proprietary data assets, so you lose all the revenue you were making from those. I- 300 third party? No. Take a look at IRIS.TV. It's a one-of-one solution. They're the only ones that went out and did the dirty work. Show level heavy lifting to go out to the content owners, do all the integration with 1,900 different content management systems, gain the trust of the content owners to be able to send all their video files of every show and episode that they have, let them index it, run all the computer vision, what's this video about, and then pass it through the bid stream. There is no competitor to it, and we acquired it. No channel conflict? No channel conflict. There's no other content identifier in the bid stream. It's only IRIS.TV. There's no other TVision. Yeah U.S.-based panel. There's Nielsen, but it's a people meter, 1989 technology. We have a camera that's passive that does facial recognition, and no one does anything, and it's just automated. These are one-for-one assets that we look for. That's what we're looking for in M&A. To understand that Tim Vanderhook's email is blank blank blank @gmail.com. I don't want to do it on video. I'm going to get spam. We get enough spam. Just to know someone's email address, that's commodity data. There's lots of third-party commodity data. Most of it is stale. People know what car I drive, that I drive a Tesla. You can get that data from 100 different providers. In the end, does that data have value? It has some value versus not knowing it. When there's 10 providers with the data, ultimately, it gets commoditized, and that's most of the data that's out there today. There is very valuable data assets out there. Very few. As part of our strategy, when we go and pitch a marketer, and they're like, "Hey, I'm using another DSP already. The only reason why I would switch is if you have unique data that's exclusive to you, or you represent content that I can't get anywhere else. Which one of those two are you? Tell me. For years, it was okay to compete in the space because you could win two out of 10 marketers. If you want someone to switch, you have to have something exclusive to you that they want. That's very valuable. One of the things that's come up on this stage a lot over the last couple of days is there's sort of a new entrance on DSPs using agentic buying platforms. Yeah. There's this One of the reasons the stocks are under pressure, I think, on the DSP side is we're not seeing this on the SSP side because you got to get a guy to adopt your agents. On the DSP side, it's cheaper to enter the market now and then just be a buyer. Sort of talk to that competitive threat about how agentic systems make the entry into your competitive set of DSPs more competitive. Yeah. If you go to buy, let's say, 100 ads- 99.9% of the time, you would buy the wrong ads- Okay if you used agentic. I think, again, it comes back to which users within Peacock or within ESPN- are you going to buy out of the 100 that are presented to you, and answering the question why. The agentic protocol exists today. There's very little adoption. Right. The technical capability is there. Yeah. In our business, if that were to come and come to fruition, we would lose no customers because our customers choose us because we have IRIS.TV, because we now have TVision, and because we have Household ID. We can resolve back to we know this is Chris Vanderhook's household. We know he's watching this show, and we know he's likely in market for Coors Light. He's in market for Coors Light all the time. All the time, because now you have to drink Molson. Post earnings. Yes. Post earnings, you're always in market for Coors Light. That's what I mean is, again, it all comes back to your value proposition is about exclusive data. It's not that we can bid and buy an impression. Because agentic or RTB, everyone can already bid and buy an impression. Let's say it gets cheaper, great. Our operating costs drop and our EBITDA skyrockets. Okay. That's the real reason why we want agentic to happen, and I hope the adoption happens faster. No one's choosing us because we have the RTB protocol. There's 1,000 DSPs that are involved in the RTB protocol today. There could might be 10,000 in the agentic protocol of tomorrow. Right. What I mean by that is there's tons of competition for bidding and buying for ads. The advantage is which users should I buy, what price should I pay, and what's the estimated ROI to the advertiser? Let's go back. One of the things you said up front is we really believe that single-sided DSPs are the way to play. Yeah. Well, you just said, Wall Street agrees, that unique supply, either content or ad units that are unique- Sure are actually preferenced, like they have pricing power. Just like unique data, which you guys now have bought. Mm-hmm. Yep. Why wouldn't an acquisition of a proprietary content base becoming two-sided be actually on your roadmap of M&A? Well, let's see, like by YouTube? If you think about it, if I owned content, let's say that we turned MySpace ad-supported, which it's not ad-supported at all today because we were tired of nasty articles being written about us. We said, "That's it. Take all the ads off. It's not worth it. Okay. It has to be large enough Yeah for it to draw a large marketer. Okay. If you bought some news publication We call it, is your content of high enough quality or reach that you're a must-buy. Right. There's very few must-buys. Let's say there's 10 or less that are out there. Yeah. That's not in our thinking. It's also not in our thinking because it would just change the thesis of the company. If I become a content owner, my business model completely switches. If you're the marketer, it's not about doing what's best for you. I need to fill that inventory. You're maximizing margin. That's my number one priority. Xumo, our previous business. We were on the sell side. That's what that business was. You get 100 ads that you can sell. You must fill all 100, otherwise your margin is less. You fill it whether it's good for the advertiser or not. We- This is why, as a buyer of ads, you can't trust a seller to actually deliver the ads for you. We give. They're going to give you the worst ads. Yeah. We gave a talk at Xumo once, and we had one slide, and it said, "CPM times fill rate equals your business. Your business. We were telling the team, like, "Get religion on this. We have to fill more ads." If you're a content owner, that's your business model. It's not bad. We're not saying it's evil. It's just that you can't actually- It's a conflict service the marketer because my incentives are conflicted. We don't want to do that. I think that the proprietary data piece is all angled towards when we go and talk to a marketer, I want to figure out a way to grow your business. I would say we're getting RFP'd a lot right now. The ones where we are most- RFP. Define. Oh, RFP, request for proposal. marketers- New customers, sales pipeline, baby new customers. Yeah. It's- Like backlog. The lifeblood of all business, new customers. The ones that we feel that we have the best chance, where we feel we're in the driver's seat, and it's many of them. We look at the corporate earnings of that company, and if they're lagging the top 10 companies in the S&P 500, we know how they spend their money in marketing. They're predominantly giving it to the sell side, Google, Meta, Amazon. They're spending 60+% of their budget with these guys. Yeah. We know that we can come in with the information and insights and show them how they can actually spend more efficiently, and it'd be like getting. When you work with us, it's like getting another 20% or 30% bump in ad spend from your CMO or your CFO, because not only are we more efficient, but we're going to put those dollars to work much harder. We want to grow their business. Okay. Whether that was Molson Coors or Whoop or any of the other ones that we won that we've announced, that is our pitch when we walk in the door. I would just put it differently as well. The total addressable market for the buy side is the entire advertising industry. Yes. The total addressable market if you're on the sell side, let's say I'm an SSP or a content owner, is a percentage of those budgets. That's true. Okay. That's the way I look at it. I can help Molson Coors spend their entire ad budget, but if I was Prime Video, let's just say, and a great streaming app, you're still going to get a percentage of the share of wallet. YouTube will get a percentage of the share of wallet. I view the TAM when you're on the buy side as the total ad industry versus if you're on the sell side, it's a percentage of the ad industry, depending on your size and scale. One other point. If I'm Amazon and I have the Amazon DSP, what do I think that their future is? If you want to buy Prime Video Yeah You can only buy it through the Amazon DSP, great. That's what's going to get it. Yeah. YouTube, the only way to buy it is through DV360. Yeah. Great. They're a walled garden. That's fine. They will get their sliver. For us, we want to be able to sit on top of much of the spend as possible to help the marketer actually grow their business, not just in a small sector. All right. I get it. Okay, questions? We have about five minutes left. Any questions for this? Chris? Yeah. How big is the Yeah. The panel in the U.S. is 5,000. It's in the U.S. only. 5,000 households. Yeah. It's about 14,000 people within those households. To compare that to Nielsen's people meter is between 10,000 and 12,000 households. We are a nationally representative sample. Nielsen is both national and local, so they're in 210 DMAs, but they have announced they're retreating from 130 DMAs they're not going to support. You're going to see their panel size shrink. It's too expensive. What's great about the TVision panel, it's a much lower cost to operate the panel. Nielsen sends out a whole team. It takes them three days to interview you and set you up. They have lab coats. It's ridiculous. They literally wear lab coats. They have high churn. Yes, very high churn. This is a passive panel. We send a box into the household. They plug it into a power source. It does the ACR of what's on the screen, and then there's a camera that you mount on top of your TV, plug it into a power source. You register on the app, everyone in the household, they take a picture of everyone. It takes three minutes to set up. I have it. I'm a panelist now. You have a box the size of a Mac mini. The camera plugs into the box. You give the QR code because you pre-registered for the panel, you're up and running. You don't have to push buttons. You don't do anything. Our churn rate is very low of people leaving the panel. That's as it stands today. The excitement that we have of the R&D we're doing, what we can provide advertisers with that panel and market is going to be exceptional. If it's so cheap, why wouldn't you make it 50,000? Why wouldn't you ship these things out to anyone who agrees- Okay. Yeah, sorry Make it a lot bigger? Really good point. We have 5,000 households today, and we are scaling that panel across every single DMA. You really just have to get to statistical significance, and then there's no- In each market. Yeah. We're statistically significant for national buying. That's the opportunity. In 35 DMAs. Yes. Out of the 220. Yeah. My follow-up question was going to be, is that a large enough panel size to inform pricing strategy? That Attention-Adjusted CPM, right? Yeah. Are you extrapolating? From a national basis, absolutely. Okay. Let's talk about how we do it. TVision, had we not acquired IRIS.TV, we would never be able to bid and buy in real time. TVision is measuring streaming apps, linear television networks and shows. IRIS.TV is supplying that content ID, which is the show, and that's how we can model onto real time who's watching, how many people are watching, what's the attention, and bid and buy in the RTB stream. If we had not acquired IRIS.TV, we wouldn't be able to do this. If we had not acquired TVision, we would not be able to do this. It was a very focused strategy of IRIS.TV, scale the IRIS.TV system, and now buy TVision and scale the TVision system. Although we're not interested in being in the currency business, we do in effect believe that TVision is going to grow the IRIS.TV carriage. Penetration. Penetration and market because we're going to be.

Speaker 2: Afternoon. I'm Laura Martin. I'm the senior media and internet analyst here at Needham, and I am here to welcome Tim and Chris Vanderhook, who are the CEO and CFO of Viant respectively. Tim is the co-founder and CEO, and Chris is the co-founder and COO of Viant Technology, ticker symbol DSP, where they have built the second largest independent DSP after Trade Desk. Their Household ID and recent acquisition of IRIS ID and TVision add unique data assets, which they are driving market share gains from competitors. Before Viant, they co-founded the streaming service Xumo, which was ultimately acquired by Comcast, and they made the high-profile acquisition of Myspace from Fox in 2011 for just $35 million after Fox had originally bought it six years before that at $580 million. Welcome you guys. Afternoon. afternoon I'm Laura Martin. i'm laura martin I'm the senior media and internet analyst here at Needham, and I am here to welcome Tim and Chris Vanderhook, who are the CEO and CFO of Viant respectively. i'm the senior media and internet analyst here at needham and i am here to welcome tim and chris vanderhook who are the ceo and cfo of viant respectively Tim is the co-founder and CEO, and Chris is the co-founder and COO of Viant Technology, ticker symbol DSP, where they have built the second largest independent DSP after Trade Desk. tim is the co-founder and ceo and chris is the co-founder and coo of viant technology ticker symbol dsp where they have built the second largest independent dsp after trade desk Their Household ID and recent acquisition of IRIS ID and TVision add unique data assets, which they are driving market share gains from competitors. their household id and recent acquisition of iris id and tvision add unique data assets which they are driving market share gains from competitors Before Viant, they co-founded the streaming service Xumo, which was ultimately acquired by Comcast, and they made the high-profile acquisition of Myspace from Fox in 2011 for just $35 million after Fox had originally bought it six years before that at $580 million. before viant they co-founded the streaming service xumo which was ultimately acquired by comcast and they made the high-profile acquisition of myspace from fox in 2011 for just $35 million after fox had originally bought it six years before that at $580 million Welcome you guys. welcome you guys

Speaker 3: Thanks. Thanks. thanks

Speaker 2: So nice to- So nice to- so nice to-

Speaker 3: Thanks for having us Thanks for having us thanks for having us

Speaker 2: have you here. have you here. have you here

Speaker 3: We are shrewd businessmen. We are shrewd businessmen. we are shrewd businessmen

Speaker 2: You are a shrewd businessman. You always have been. You are a shrewd businessman. you are a shrewd businessman You always have been. you always have been

Speaker 3: Somehow MySpace is still in our bio. Somehow MySpace is still in our bio. somehow myspace is still in our bio

Speaker 2: I know, but I really like that statistic. I know, but I really like that statistic. i know but i really like that statistic

Speaker 3: We're going to change that. Yeah. We're going to change that. we're going to change that Yeah. yeah

Speaker 2: That you buy for $35 what Fox buys for $600. That you buy for $35 what Fox buys for $600. that you buy for $35 what fox buys for $600

Speaker 1: We still lost money. We still lost money. we still lost money

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 2: You didn't lose near as much as Fox. You didn't lose near as much as Fox. you didn't lose near as much as fox

Speaker 1: That's true. That's true. that's true

Speaker 3: That's true. That's true. that's true

Speaker 2: Everything's relative in the end, right? Everything's relative in the end, right? everything's relative in the end right

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 2: Anyway. Okay, let's start with recent earnings and go from there, and I'm going to try to find questions that pit you against each other, which I've never been successful doing. The first one I want to start with is leadership, because you guys are really different kind of leaders it seems to me. I want to start with generative AI is changing, it's transformational. My question is, what are the different things in leadership you have to do during a transformational technology change that maybe weren't relevant three or four years ago when things were more just execution excellence? Anyway. anyway Okay, let's start with recent earnings and go from there, and I'm going to try to find questions that pit you against each other, which I've never been successful doing. okay let's start with recent earnings and go from there and i'm going to try to find questions that pit you against each other which i've never been successful doing The first one I want to start with is leadership, because you guys are really different kind of leaders it seems to me. the first one i want to start with is leadership because you guys are really different kind of leaders it seems to me I want to start with generative AI is changing, it's transformational. i want to start with generative ai is changing it's transformational My question is, what are the different things in leadership you have to do during a transformational technology change that maybe weren't relevant three or four years ago when things were more just execution excellence? my question is what are the different things in leadership you have to do during a transformational technology change that maybe weren't relevant three or four years ago when things were more just execution excellence

Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't know if it's how we operate, which is I'll just talk how we operate. We get into the weeds. We're a part of the team that's developing it. We understand it from the ground up because we want to be able to speak to it at a very granular level because we're always out talking to customers, talking to investors. Yeah. yeah I don't know if it's how we operate, which is I'll just talk how we operate. i don't know if it's how we operate which is i'll just talk how we operate We get into the weeds. we get into the weeds We're a part of the team that's developing it. we're a part of the team that's developing it We understand it from the ground up because we want to be able to speak to it at a very granular level because we're always out talking to customers, talking to investors. we understand it from the ground up because we want to be able to speak to it at a very granular level because we're always out talking to customers talking to investors

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 3: We want to make sure we know what we're talking about. Even if I look at some of the newer things that happen, like ViantAI, which we released 2 years ago. That prototype was built by myself after the engineering team said it's not possible, the PM said it's not possible. I basically got pissed off and built it myself and then delivered the working prototype to them. I think that's the difference of a founder-led business versus that of the managerial class, some of the bigger companies. The founders have ultimate optimism and I don't really care about optimism. I just want to get the job done. For me, I like to dive in there and actually see if it's possible for myself. If I hit a wall, well, I can't blame anybody else. We want to make sure we know what we're talking about. we want to make sure we know what we're talking about Even if I look at some of the newer things that happen, like ViantAI, which we released 2 years ago. even if i look at some of the newer things that happen like viantai which we released 2 years ago That prototype was built by myself after the engineering team said it's not possible, the PM said it's not possible. that prototype was built by myself after the engineering team said it's not possible the pm said it's not possible I basically got pissed off and built it myself and then delivered the working prototype to them. i basically got pissed off and built it myself and then delivered the working prototype to them I think that's the difference of a founder-led business versus that of the managerial class, some of the bigger companies. i think that's the difference of a founder-led business versus that of the managerial class some of the bigger companies The founders have ultimate optimism and I don't really care about optimism. the founders have ultimate optimism and i don't really care about optimism I just want to get the job done. i just want to get the job done For me, I like to dive in there and actually see if it's possible for myself. for me i like to dive in there and actually see if it's possible for myself If I hit a wall, well, I can't blame anybody else. if i hit a wall well i can't blame anybody else

Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. okay

Speaker 1: I. I. i

Speaker 2: Chris, what about you? Chris, what about you? chris what about you

Speaker 1: just to tag onto the other part of Tim's story there. When we went public, we had this vision, a product vision of autonomous advertising, which was powered by artificial intelligence. This is pre-OpenAI, ChatGPT, all that, right? We had a lab, and we had a guy who ran that lab, and he was an applied scientist. What we've came to figure out over three years was, I don't know what he applied any of the science to because we weren't getting any product out of it. just to tag onto the other part of Tim's story there. just to tag onto the other part of tim's story there When we went public, we had this vision, a product vision of autonomous advertising, which was powered by artificial intelligence. when we went public we had this vision a product vision of autonomous advertising which was powered by artificial intelligence This is pre-OpenAI, ChatGPT, all that, right? this is pre-openai chatgpt all that right We had a lab, and we had a guy who ran that lab, and he was an applied scientist. we had a lab and we had a guy who ran that lab and he was an applied scientist What we've came to figure out over three years was, I don't know what he applied any of the science to because we weren't getting any product out of it. what we've came to figure out over three years was i don't know what he applied any of the science to because we weren't getting any product out of it

Speaker 3: It was more research. It was more research. it was more research

Speaker 1: It was really that frustration. I think just as founders who run businesses, you typically find the good ones are, to Tim's point, getting into the weeds. We felt that we needed to be first. We wanted to be first. That's what precipitates change in an organization, and that's why Tim, over a week, basically spent his vacation doing that. On the other side of the coin, just as you run a company, what we do constantly, we're paranoid all the time, we look around corners, and we want to know where the boogeyman is. We want to know what could be lurking. We sit in the RTB infrastructure. We're in programmatic. It was really that frustration. it was really that frustration I think just as founders who run businesses, you typically find the good ones are, to Tim's point, getting into the weeds. i think just as founders who run businesses you typically find the good ones are to tim's point getting into the weeds We felt that we needed to be first. we felt that we needed to be first We wanted to be first. we wanted to be first That's what precipitates change in an organization, and that's why Tim, over a week, basically spent his vacation doing that. that's what precipitates change in an organization and that's why tim over a week basically spent his vacation doing that On the other side of the coin, just as you run a company, what we do constantly, we're paranoid all the time, we look around corners, and we want to know where the boogeyman is. on the other side of the coin just as you run a company what we do constantly we're paranoid all the time we look around corners and we want to know where the boogeyman is We want to know what could be lurking. we want to know what could be lurking We sit in the RTB infrastructure. we sit in the rtb infrastructure We're in programmatic. we're in programmatic

Speaker 2: RTB, real-time bidding. RTB, real-time bidding. rtb real-time bidding

Speaker 1: The real-time bidding infrastructure. We look at what could be possible threats. Oftentimes those threats become opportunities. When you look, AI, only recently in the last few months have we had this AI apocalypse, but it's something that we've been looking at, that we think it's an opportunity. At the same time, what we don't want to do, although we don't think it's going to be en masse in the next year or two, we do want to be prepared for that. We want to be able to enable our clients for that. The real-time bidding infrastructure. the real-time bidding infrastructure We look at what could be possible threats. we look at what could be possible threats Oftentimes those threats become opportunities. oftentimes those threats become opportunities When you look, AI, only recently in the last few months have we had this AI apocalypse, but it's something that we've been looking at, that we think it's an opportunity. when you look ai only recently in the last few months have we had this ai apocalypse but it's something that we've been looking at that we think it's an opportunity At the same time, what we don't want to do, although we don't think it's going to be en masse in the next year or two, we do want to be prepared for that. at the same time what we don't want to do although we don't think it's going to be en masse in the next year or two we do want to be prepared for that We want to be able to enable our clients for that. we want to be able to enable our clients for that

Speaker 3: Just getting back to the leadership question. Three days ago, I just told my assistant, "Cancel all my standing one-on-one meetings with all the department heads. I don't care about that anymore. I want to meet with these five people next week, and next Friday when I meet with you, I'll tell you the next five meetings I want in the next week." I think as a founder, you're addressing the biggest problems in the company. You need to give the business context to the people working on the hardest problems. You need to see it through and make sure that things get done. Versus before, just the general delegation of tasks. I just don't see that working in the future. If I have an IR problem, I'm meeting with Nick, the head of my IR all week long. Just getting back to the leadership question. just getting back to the leadership question Three days ago, I just told my assistant, "Cancel all my standing one-on-one meetings with all the department heads. three days ago i just told my assistant "cancel all my standing one-on-one meetings with all the department heads I don't care about that anymore. i don't care about that anymore I want to meet with these five people next week, and next Friday when I meet with you, I'll tell you the next five meetings I want in the next week." I think as a founder, you're addressing the biggest problems in the company. i want to meet with these five people next week and next friday when i meet with you i'll tell you the next five meetings i want in the next week." i think as a founder you're addressing the biggest problems in the company You need to give the business context to the people working on the hardest problems. you need to give the business context to the people working on the hardest problems You need to see it through and make sure that things get done. you need to see it through and make sure that things get done Versus before, just the general delegation of tasks. versus before just the general delegation of tasks I just don't see that working in the future. i just don't see that working in the future If I have an IR problem, I'm meeting with Nick, the head of my IR all week long. if i have an ir problem i'm meeting with nick the head of my ir all week long Solving the questions that he's getting asked, understanding how to frame it, on what the opportunity is versus the risk. Solving the questions that he's getting asked, understanding how to frame it, on what the opportunity is versus the risk. solving the questions that he's getting asked understanding how to frame it on what the opportunity is versus the risk All of these types of things. The AI story I gave you, it was pure product and engineering at that point with the data team. To me, I just view it as what's the biggest problem? What's the biggest need for the business? All of these types of things. all of these types of things The AI story I gave you, it was pure product and engineering at that point with the data team. the ai story i gave you it was pure product and engineering at that point with the data team To me, I just view it as what's the biggest problem? to me i just view it as what's the biggest problem What's the biggest need for the business? what's the biggest need for the business We just attack it because the business can't move forward until you solve that problem, and then you're able to actually move the business forward. We just attack it because the business can't move forward until you solve that problem, and then you're able to actually move the business forward. we just attack it because the business can't move forward until you solve that problem and then you're able to actually move the business forward

Speaker 2: One of the big controversies that's erupted on this stage today, because you guys are, I think, the 10th AdTech CEO team I've had on the stage is, do you think that generative AI agents will be built on new rails or on the programmatic rails? One of the big controversies that's erupted on this stage today, because you guys are, I think, the 10th AdTech CEO team I've had on the stage is, do you think that generative AI agents will be built on new rails or on the programmatic rails? one of the big controversies that's erupted on this stage today because you guys are i think the 10th adtech ceo team i've had on the stage is do you think that generative ai agents will be built on new rails or on the programmatic rails

Speaker 3: The answer's both. It's on the programmatic rails in the near term. I think in the long term, it's on the agentic rails. The answer's both. the answer's both It's on the programmatic rails in the near term. it's on the programmatic rails in the near term I think in the long term, it's on the agentic rails. i think in the long term it's on the agentic rails

Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. okay

Speaker 3: The question is timing. In zero to three years, very low probability that it's on AdCP, the new agentic rail. The question is timing. the question is timing In zero to three years, very low probability that it's on AdCP, the new agentic rail. in zero to three years very low probability that it's on adcp the new agentic rail

Speaker 2: Yeah, MCP Yeah, MCP yeah mcp

Speaker 3: MCP. That's on the new rails inside of There's a founder who called it AdCP. Now, I shouldn't have said that, yes. MCP as a way to communicate, absolutely. The question is 0-3 years, low probability, 3-5 years, mid-probability, 5 years plus, high probability. MCP. mcp That's on the new rails inside of There's a founder who called it AdCP. that's on the new rails inside of there's a founder who called it adcp Now, I shouldn't have said that, yes. now i shouldn't have said that yes MCP as a way to communicate, absolutely. mcp as a way to communicate absolutely The question is 0-3 years, low probability, 3-5 years, mid-probability, 5 years plus, high probability. the question is 0-3 years low probability 3-5 years mid-probability 5 years plus high probability

Speaker 2: It might take 20. It might take 20. it might take 20

Speaker 3: Correct. Yeah. Correct. correct Yeah. yeah

Speaker 2: There's so much money, there's so much at stake if you this up. There's so much money, there's so much at stake if you this up. there's so much money there's so much at stake if you this up

Speaker 3: Absolutely. Everyone talks about the hallucinations a lot. We've got hallucinations basically solved internally because I think most people think of AI like it can hallucinate. A lot of times when you make a statement into ChatGPT, it's unclear what you were saying. Absolutely. absolutely Everyone talks about the hallucinations a lot. everyone talks about the hallucinations a lot We've got hallucinations basically solved internally because I think most people think of AI like it can hallucinate. we've got hallucinations basically solved internally because i think most people think of ai like it can hallucinate A lot of times when you make a statement into ChatGPT, it's unclear what you were saying. a lot of times when you make a statement into chatgpt it's unclear what you were saying When we view AI, we're building robots that do the same thing over and over and over and over again. When we view AI, we're building robots that do the same thing over and over and over and over again. when we view ai we're building robots that do the same thing over and over and over and over again

Speaker 2: Right. Right. right

Speaker 3: That's the way that you actually do it, then those robots become very good at solving the errors. I think we're deep in the weeds of it. ViantAI is an agentic platform internally, it's riding the RTB rails today. We fully plan that it will switch to a different rail at some point in the future, it's just a question of time on when that is, we'll be ready for it, no problem. That's the way that you actually do it, then those robots become very good at solving the errors. that's the way that you actually do it then those robots become very good at solving the errors I think we're deep in the weeds of it. i think we're deep in the weeds of it ViantAI is an agentic platform internally, it's riding the RTB rails today. viantai is an agentic platform internally it's riding the rtb rails today We fully plan that it will switch to a different rail at some point in the future, it's just a question of time on when that is, we'll be ready for it, no problem. we fully plan that it will switch to a different rail at some point in the future it's just a question of time on when that is we'll be ready for it no problem

Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. okay

Speaker 1: I can give you a good example of where we've experienced this in the past. In 2009, 2010, Tim and I became obsessed with We were watching online video happen- I can give you a good example of where we've experienced this in the past. i can give you a good example of where we've experienced this in the past In 2009, 2010, Tim and I became obsessed with We were watching online video happen- in 2009 2010 tim and i became obsessed with we were watching online video happen- We wanted to look to the future, we were obsessed with a television will eventually be internet connected- We wanted to look to the future, we were obsessed with a television will eventually be internet connected- we wanted to look to the future we were obsessed with a television will eventually be internet connected- Content will be streamed, not delivered over copper into your house. At that time, we were going around to all these industry shows for broadcasters, this technology was out there called IPTV. That's what it was called. Content will be streamed, not delivered over copper into your house. content will be streamed not delivered over copper into your house At that time, we were going around to all these industry shows for broadcasters, this technology was out there called IPTV. at that time we were going around to all these industry shows for broadcasters this technology was out there called iptv That's what it was called. that's what it was called We literally tried to hostile takeover-bid a private company called Move Networks- We literally tried to hostile takeover-bid a private company called Move Networks- we literally tried to hostile takeover-bid a private company called move networks- that was early in the space. that was early in the space. that was early in the space

Speaker 3: Which has become Sling. Which has become Sling. which has become sling

Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. yes

Speaker 2: Oh. Oh. oh

Speaker 1: We weren't successful in that acquisition, but we immediately started building Xumo. We weren't successful in that acquisition, but we immediately started building Xumo. we weren't successful in that acquisition but we immediately started building xumo This was in late 2010. This was in late 2010. this was in late 2010

Speaker 3: Yep. Yep. yep

Speaker 1: We believed that it was a sure thing it was going to happen, and it was going to happen in the next two to three years. We built Xumo. We burned so much capital, and we had installations with all the big television OEMs. We were getting our software installed on chipsets. We were so early. It didn't hit until 2020. We believed that it was a sure thing it was going to happen, and it was going to happen in the next two to three years. we believed that it was a sure thing it was going to happen and it was going to happen in the next two to three years We built Xumo. we built xumo We burned so much capital, and we had installations with all the big television OEMs. we burned so much capital and we had installations with all the big television oems We were getting our software installed on chipsets. we were getting our software installed on chipsets We were so early. we were so early It didn't hit until 2020. it didn't hit until 2020

Speaker 2: 10 years later. 10 years later. 10 years later

Speaker 3: Correct. Correct. correct

Speaker 1: 10 years later, we burned an insane amount of capital. 10 years later, we burned an insane amount of capital. 10 years later we burned an insane amount of capital

Speaker 2: Well, you probably got it back when you sold it to Comcast. Well, you probably got it back when you sold it to Comcast. well you probably got it back when you sold it to comcast

Speaker 1: We did. You know what? We were first. We did. we did You know what? you know what We were first. we were first

Speaker 3: It should have never sold. It should have never sold. it should have never sold

Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. yes

Speaker 3: Had we not done that, we would have maintained control. Had we maintained control, Xumo would be an independently, publicly traded company in the billions. It's worth $2 billion today, last valuation. That's what happens when you're a founder. If you miss on the timing, you've got to raise more capital. Had we not done that, we would have maintained control. had we not done that we would have maintained control Had we maintained control, Xumo would be an independently, publicly traded company in the billions. had we maintained control xumo would be an independently publicly traded company in the billions It's worth $2 billion today, last valuation. it's worth $2 billion today last valuation That's what happens when you're a founder. that's what happens when you're a founder If you miss on the timing, you've got to raise more capital. if you miss on the timing you've got to raise more capital

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 3: You lose control, you have an idiot making the decision. That's it. You lose control, you have an idiot making the decision. you lose control you have an idiot making the decision That's it. that's it

Speaker 1: Even when you were right, you were wrong. Even when you were right, you were wrong. even when you were right you were wrong

Speaker 3: Yes. Yes. yes

Speaker 2: Right. Right. right

Speaker 3: You can still be right, but you're still wrong. You can still be right, but you're still wrong. you can still be right but you're still wrong

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 2: Well, it's like Wall Street on linear TV. We were right about linear TV. Well, it's like Wall Street on linear TV. well it's like wall street on linear tv We were right about linear TV. we were right about linear tv

Speaker 3: Correct. Correct. correct

Speaker 2: It's just going to take 30 years, not 10. It's just going to take 30 years, not 10. it's just going to take 30 years not 10

Speaker 3: Correct. Correct. correct

Speaker 2: It might take 50. It might take 50. it might take 50

Speaker 3: Right. Right. right

Speaker 2: People might have to die. People might have to die. people might have to die

Speaker 3: Correct. Correct. correct

Speaker 2: If you're too early, it's just as bad as being wrong. If you're too early, it's just as bad as being wrong. if you're too early it's just as bad as being wrong

Speaker 3: Yep Yep yep

Speaker 2: if you're getting paid. if you're getting paid. if you're getting paid

Speaker 3: It's the same. Same outcome. It's the same. it's the same Same outcome. same outcome

Speaker 2: Same outcome. Let's talk about one of the things I wanted to ask, just on this last thing on leadership. One of the most interesting things that's being said is that maybe we need to get rid of functional organizations. No more marketing, no more product, no more engineering. That what we need are these SWAT teams, where you put teams of five people or 10 people from all different areas, and you say, "This is your deliverable. Same outcome. same outcome Let's talk about one of the things I wanted to ask, just on this last thing on leadership. let's talk about one of the things i wanted to ask just on this last thing on leadership One of the most interesting things that's being said is that maybe we need to get rid of functional organizations. one of the most interesting things that's being said is that maybe we need to get rid of functional organizations No more marketing, no more product, no more engineering. no more marketing no more product no more engineering That what we need are these SWAT teams, where you put teams of five people or 10 people from all different areas, and you say, "This is your deliverable. that what we need are these swat teams where you put teams of five people or 10 people from all different areas and you say "this is your deliverable In six months, I want you to do this because we're getting requested by clients. In six months, I want you to do this because we're getting requested by clients. in six months i want you to do this because we're getting requested by clients

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 2: If you don't, you all lose your jobs. If you don't, you all lose your jobs. if you don't you all lose your jobs If you do, you get to get the next project." It's a big idea because it would destroy traditional architectures. If you do, you get to get the next project." It's a big idea because it would destroy traditional architectures. if you do you get to get the next project." it's a big idea because it would destroy traditional architectures

Speaker 3: Yeah Yeah yeah

Speaker 2: you could implement that, or a startup would start like that. They would never have functional designations. you could implement that, or a startup would start like that. you could implement that or a startup would start like that They would never have functional designations. they would never have functional designations

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 2: Big companies would be doomed because they can't get rid of the silos. Big companies would be doomed because they can't get rid of the silos. big companies would be doomed because they can't get rid of the silos

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 2: Do you have an opinion on that? Do you have an opinion on that? do you have an opinion on that

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 3: Why don't you start? Why don't you start? why don't you start

Speaker 1: It's what I think we try to put in practice almost every day. It's what I think we try to put in practice almost every day. it's what i think we try to put in practice almost every day

Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. okay

Speaker 1: Not formally per se, where we say there's no more marketing, there's no more engineering. They certainly are there. Every time, we have our top priorities, and that's basically what we do. Let's say that you're going to build a new product. Not formally per se, where we say there's no more marketing, there's no more engineering. not formally per se where we say there's no more marketing there's no more engineering They certainly are there. they certainly are there Every time, we have our top priorities, and that's basically what we do. every time we have our top priorities and that's basically what we do Let's say that you're going to build a new product. let's say that you're going to build a new product

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 1: Okay? I'll use our Outcomes product that we launched at CES- Okay? okay I'll use our Outcomes product that we launched at CES- i'll use our outcomes product that we launched at ces-

Speaker 2: Yeah Yeah yeah

Speaker 1: as an example. To successfully launch that, you can't just have a product manager. as an example. as an example To successfully launch that, you can't just have a product manager. to successfully launch that you can't just have a product manager

Speaker 2: Why don't you tell them what it is first, so they know what you're working with? Why don't you tell them what it is first, so they know what you're working with? why don't you tell them what it is first so they know what you're working with

Speaker 1: Yeah. Outcomes is our first fully autonomous advertising product, but it's for performance-based marketing clients. Yeah. yeah Outcomes is our first fully autonomous advertising product, but it's for performance-based marketing clients. outcomes is our first fully autonomous advertising product but it's for performance-based marketing clients

Speaker 2: Right. Right. right

Speaker 1: It basically is fully automated. They give us four pieces of info, the advertiser name, the budget, what your goal is, you want sales, and what's the flight dates of the campaign? From there, the AI runs. It basically is fully automated. it basically is fully automated They give us four pieces of info, the advertiser name, the budget, what your goal is, you want sales, and what's the flight dates of the campaign? they give us four pieces of info the advertiser name the budget what your goal is you want sales and what's the flight dates of the campaign From there, the AI runs. from there the ai runs

Speaker 2: They give you the creative, presumably. They give you the creative, presumably. they give you the creative presumably

Speaker 1: They give us the creative. They give us the creative. they give us the creative

Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. okay

Speaker 1: From there, the AI runs the entire campaign. It picks the media plan, auto-generates it. It decides how much budget it's going to allocate. It is in charge of all the optimization. It constantly regenerates new sites, new apps. It runs the measurement. It's incredible. However, to get this product, traditionally, a product manager would scope it out, they'd write a PRD for it, they'd give it to the engineer, they'd build it, and then they just expect that these things come out perfect. They don't. You have to get people from the customer. You've got to get customer feedback on what kind of guardrails does this need? It needs brand safety. From there, the AI runs the entire campaign. from there the ai runs the entire campaign It picks the media plan, auto-generates it. it picks the media plan auto-generates it It decides how much budget it's going to allocate. it decides how much budget it's going to allocate It is in charge of all the optimization. it is in charge of all the optimization It constantly regenerates new sites, new apps. it constantly regenerates new sites new apps It runs the measurement. it runs the measurement It's incredible. it's incredible However, to get this product, traditionally, a product manager would scope it out, they'd write a PRD for it, they'd give it to the engineer, they'd build it, and then they just expect that these things come out perfect. however to get this product traditionally a product manager would scope it out they'd write a prd for it they'd give it to the engineer they'd build it and then they just expect that these things come out perfect They don't. they don't You have to get people from the customer. you have to get people from the customer You've got to get customer feedback on what kind of guardrails does this need? you've got to get customer feedback on what kind of guardrails does this need It needs brand safety. it needs brand safety They need transparency. Okay, great. You have to bring in the product marketing team as well, because the minute we launch this, we need salespeople ready to go. You have to bring in sales enablement and training to learn how the product works so they can help train the salespeople. That is kind of what you're talking about. They need transparency. they need transparency Okay, great. okay great You have to bring in the product marketing team as well, because the minute we launch this, we need salespeople ready to go. you have to bring in the product marketing team as well because the minute we launch this we need salespeople ready to go You have to bring in sales enablement and training to learn how the product works so they can help train the salespeople. you have to bring in sales enablement and training to learn how the product works so they can help train the salespeople That is kind of what you're talking about. that is kind of what you're talking about

Speaker 2: Yeah Yeah yeah

Speaker 1: these SWAT teams. Tim and I also just started this kind of along the lines, we don't want these one-on-ones, but what we do is a standup call. It's the most expensive call in our company because there's probably about 20, 25 people on this call. these SWAT teams. these swat teams Tim and I also just started this kind of along the lines, we don't want these one-on-ones, but what we do is a standup call. tim and i also just started this kind of along the lines we don't want these one-on-ones but what we do is a standup call It's the most expensive call in our company because there's probably about 20, 25 people on this call. it's the most expensive call in our company because there's probably about 20 25 people on this call

Speaker 2: Isn't it just on internet protocol Zoom? Which is free. Isn't it just on internet protocol Zoom? isn't it just on internet protocol zoom Which is free. which is free

Speaker 1: It is. It is. it is

Speaker 3: It's still an hour of 30 people's time. It's still an hour of 30 people's time. it's still an hour of 30 people's time

Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. yes

Speaker 2: I see. It's expensive from. I see. i see It's expensive from. it's expensive from

Speaker 3: From a. From a. from a

Speaker 2: personnel- personnel- personnel-

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. okay

Speaker 1: Every week, those topics can vary, but they're our top priorities. Not everybody talks, and they know. Every week, those topics can vary, but they're our top priorities. every week those topics can vary but they're our top priorities Not everybody talks, and they know. not everybody talks and they know

Speaker 2: Is it presentation or Q&A? Is it presentation or Q&A? is it presentation or q&a

Speaker 1: No, it's just us. No, it's just us. no it's just us

Speaker 3: It's we run it. It's we run it. it's we run it

Speaker 1: We run it and say, "These are the- We run it and say, "These are the- we run it and say "these are the-

Speaker 3: We drill people with questions. What's the problem? I ask the next person. We drill people with questions. we drill people with questions What's the problem? what's the problem I ask the next person. i ask the next person

Speaker 2: I see. I see. i see

Speaker 3: We play judge and jury as well. "Nope, this is the right answer. Move forward. We play judge and jury as well. "Nope, this is the right answer. we play judge and jury as well "nope this is the right answer Move forward. move forward

Speaker 1: That's what we're trying to do, is move at a pace that's very fast. That's what we're trying to do, is move at a pace that's very fast. that's what we're trying to do is move at a pace that's very fast Break down silos. Something's stuck again the second week in a row. What's the limiting factor? What's the issue? We have all the I shouldn't say all, but we have a lot of context across the organization, and that person, who might be an engineer or a product manager or a salesperson, maybe doesn't have all the context. We can provide that. That has proved very valuable. It moves things quickly through the org. It goes back to the original point that Tim said. We don't believe in what we call the managerial class of the CTO. Break down silos. break down silos Something's stuck again the second week in a row. something's stuck again the second week in a row What's the limiting factor? what's the limiting factor What's the issue? what's the issue We have all the I shouldn't say all, but we have a lot of context across the organization, and that person, who might be an engineer or a product manager or a salesperson, maybe doesn't have all the context. we have all the i shouldn't say all but we have a lot of context across the organization and that person who might be an engineer or a product manager or a salesperson maybe doesn't have all the context We can provide that. we can provide that That has proved very valuable. that has proved very valuable It moves things quickly through the org. it moves things quickly through the org It goes back to the original point that Tim said. it goes back to the original point that tim said We don't believe in what we call the managerial class of the CTO. we don't believe in what we call the managerial class of the cto

Speaker 3: You're worthless. You're worthless. you're worthless

Speaker 1: Yeah. You just preside over these meetings. Yeah. yeah You just preside over these meetings. you just preside over these meetings

Speaker 3: If you went to Harvard Business School, Stanford Business School, you don't have the domain expertise, you are worthless. That was a bill of goods that got sold to everybody, it turned out not to be true. You just have an expensive college bill you've got to pay back. If you went to Harvard Business School, Stanford Business School, you don't have the domain expertise, you are worthless. if you went to harvard business school stanford business school you don't have the domain expertise you are worthless That was a bill of goods that got sold to everybody, it turned out not to be true. that was a bill of goods that got sold to everybody it turned out not to be true You just have an expensive college bill you've got to pay back. you just have an expensive college bill you've got to pay back

Speaker 2: I think I would probably disagree with you on that. I think I would probably disagree with you on that. i think i would probably disagree with you on that

Speaker 3: By the way. By the way. by the way

Speaker 2: Being one of those Harvard people. Okay. Being one of those Harvard people. being one of those harvard people Okay. okay

Speaker 3: Let me just also bring up, just to answer the question, the absolute answer is yes. SWAT teams with heavy domain expertise are the future. Just look at Stanford Engineering School. Big Tech used to suck all the talent that came out of all these schools, just looking at Stanford, number one. Okay. They used to hire 50% of kids coming out of that school. Let me just also bring up, just to answer the question, the absolute answer is yes. let me just also bring up just to answer the question the absolute answer is yes SWAT teams with heavy domain expertise are the future. swat teams with heavy domain expertise are the future Just look at Stanford Engineering School. just look at stanford engineering school Big Tech used to suck all the talent that came out of all these schools, just looking at Stanford, number one. big tech used to suck all the talent that came out of all these schools just looking at stanford number one Okay. okay They used to hire 50% of kids coming out of that school. they used to hire 50% of kids coming out of that school

Speaker 2: Right. Right. right

Speaker 3: It's down to 7%. It's down to 7%. it's down to 7%

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 3: Why? Because they don't have domain expertise. Why? why Because they don't have domain expertise. because they don't have domain expertise You're not valuable in business today because AI has the coding expertise. It can help you get these things done. You're not valuable in business today because AI has the coding expertise. you're not valuable in business today because ai has the coding expertise It can help you get these things done. it can help you get these things done

Speaker 2: Right. Right. right

Speaker 3: To me, I think what you're going to see by big tech is many people are going to lose their jobs, unless you are absolutely critical with domain expertise. That's it. To me, I think what you're going to see by big tech is many people are going to lose their jobs, unless you are absolutely critical with domain expertise. to me i think what you're going to see by big tech is many people are going to lose their jobs unless you are absolutely critical with domain expertise That's it. that's it

Speaker 2: You have good human judgment, or you can interact with people, because you're still going to have to manage people. You have good human judgment, or you can interact with people, because you're still going to have to manage people. you have good human judgment or you can interact with people because you're still going to have to manage people

Speaker 3: Sure. Yep. Relationships are still important. Sure. sure Yep. yep Relationships are still important. relationships are still important

Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. Very interesting. Let's go to the quarter, which was excellent. Just to recap, but I should let you do it because 18% revenue growth, guiding to 23% revenue growth, compared to The Trade Desk at 12% guiding to 8%, and almost every other today, Nexxen came out, and I think theirs was highest under yours, which was 13% revenue growth and guiding to higher. The point is, you guys are double, okay, 50% higher than the rest of industry and accelerating as you get, you said every quarter will accelerate. Talk about what's driving that really formidable growth that the rest of the industry, because we cover 10 of these, nobody's close to you guys. Yeah. yeah Okay. okay Very interesting. very interesting Let's go to the quarter, which was excellent. let's go to the quarter which was excellent Just to recap, but I should let you do it because 18% revenue growth, guiding to 23% revenue growth, compared to The Trade Desk at 12% guiding to 8%, and almost every other today, Nexxen came out, and I think theirs was highest under yours, which was 13% revenue growth and guiding to higher. just to recap but i should let you do it because 18% revenue growth guiding to 23% revenue growth compared to the trade desk at 12% guiding to 8% and almost every other today nexxen came out and i think theirs was highest under yours which was 13% revenue growth and guiding to higher The point is, you guys are double, okay, 50% higher than the rest of industry and accelerating as you get, you said every quarter will accelerate. the point is you guys are double okay 50% higher than the rest of industry and accelerating as you get you said every quarter will accelerate Talk about what's driving that really formidable growth that the rest of the industry, because we cover 10 of these, nobody's close to you guys. talk about what's driving that really formidable growth that the rest of the industry because we cover 10 of these nobody's close to you guys

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 2: What's driving that, and why does that continue? What's driving that, and why does that continue? what's driving that and why does that continue

Speaker 3: It's just because we have the best product. It's not like in the end yet, but there's certain portions that are execution. I think advertisers are very smart. There's lots of data. They measure everything. Ultimately, it comes down to who has the best product in connected television. The most thing I'm most proud about, those are great stats, and we're really proud of it. We didn't mention that EBITDA was up 81%. We should. Cash flow was up quite a bit as well. From a management perspective, we're doing a great job. We flat out have the best DSP, independent, buy side only, and we think that's the right way. Others will disagree. Ultimately, our growth rate in CTV was up 40% for the third year in a row. It's like, how many years can you put up before investors figure it out? It's just because we have the best product. it's just because we have the best product It's not like in the end yet, but there's certain portions that are execution. it's not like in the end yet but there's certain portions that are execution I think advertisers are very smart. i think advertisers are very smart There's lots of data. there's lots of data They measure everything. they measure everything Ultimately, it comes down to who has the best product in connected television. ultimately it comes down to who has the best product in connected television The most thing I'm most proud about, those are great stats, and we're really proud of it. the most thing i'm most proud about those are great stats and we're really proud of it We didn't mention that EBITDA was up 81%. we didn't mention that ebitda was up 81% We should. we should Cash flow was up quite a bit as well. cash flow was up quite a bit as well From a management perspective, we're doing a great job. from a management perspective we're doing a great job We flat out have the best DSP, independent, buy side only, and we think that's the right way. we flat out have the best dsp independent buy side only and we think that's the right way Others will disagree. others will disagree Ultimately, our growth rate in CTV was up 40% for the third year in a row. ultimately our growth rate in ctv was up 40% for the third year in a row It's like, how many years can you put up before investors figure it out? it's like how many years can you put up before investors figure it out Our stock is down today, apparently another year. We'll wait till next year. I think when it comes down to it is we just flat out have the best product in CTV. We think that is where the decision is made. We have Iris, which gives you content-level intelligence. It's exclusive data. We just did the acquisition of TVision, which customers are about to get the benefit of that. Now a customer can target at the show level. We get the lowest price because we have the best bidding algorithm that's out there. AI Bidding has 90% adoption. It was the fastest-growing adopted product that we ever released. Now with TVision, we now have the data from a U.S.-based panel feeding us the data before the ad break hits. Our stock is down today, apparently another year. our stock is down today apparently another year We'll wait till next year. we'll wait till next year I think when it comes down to it is we just flat out have the best product in CTV. i think when it comes down to it is we just flat out have the best product in ctv We think that is where the decision is made. we think that is where the decision is made We have Iris, which gives you content-level intelligence. we have iris which gives you content-level intelligence It's exclusive data. it's exclusive data We just did the acquisition of TVision, which customers are about to get the benefit of that. we just did the acquisition of tvision which customers are about to get the benefit of that Now a customer can target at the show level. now a customer can target at the show level We get the lowest price because we have the best bidding algorithm that's out there. we get the lowest price because we have the best bidding algorithm that's out there AI Bidding has 90% adoption. ai bidding has 90% adoption It was the fastest-growing adopted product that we ever released. it was the fastest-growing adopted product that we ever released Now with TVision, we now have the data from a U.S.-based panel feeding us the data before the ad break hits. now with tvision we now have the data from a u.s.-based panel feeding us the data before the ad break hits

Speaker 2: About attention. About attention. about attention

Speaker 3: Around not just attention, but reach. What's the co-viewing, the number of people in the room watching this content? What's the demographics of those that are in there? Are there eyes on the screen, or are they looking at the phone? That's attention. I think when you think about the data that we have before the ad break hits, now we're able to buy the ad way more effectively than any competitor, then single-handedly, the product that's needed. Today, when an advertiser buys, they buy from Google Direct for YouTube, Prime Video direct from Amazon. They buy linear TV from all the television networks, and it's measured by Nielsen. YouTube measures themselves. Prime Video measures themselves. The open internet provides an actual statistic. You have four different measurement systems that are measuring. Around not just attention, but reach. around not just attention but reach What's the co-viewing, the number of people in the room watching this content? what's the co-viewing the number of people in the room watching this content What's the demographics of those that are in there? what's the demographics of those that are in there Are there eyes on the screen, or are they looking at the phone? are there eyes on the screen or are they looking at the phone That's attention. that's attention I think when you think about the data that we have before the ad break hits, now we're able to buy the ad way more effectively than any competitor, then single-handedly, the product that's needed. i think when you think about the data that we have before the ad break hits now we're able to buy the ad way more effectively than any competitor then single-handedly the product that's needed Today, when an advertiser buys, they buy from Google Direct for YouTube, Prime Video direct from Amazon. today when an advertiser buys they buy from google direct for youtube prime video direct from amazon They buy linear TV from all the television networks, and it's measured by Nielsen. they buy linear tv from all the television networks and it's measured by nielsen YouTube measures themselves. youtube measures themselves Prime Video measures themselves. prime video measures themselves The open internet provides an actual statistic. the open internet provides an actual statistic You have four different measurement systems that are measuring. you have four different measurement systems that are measuring For the first time, TVision puts all four of those, we measure all of them as an independent provider. Now you can understand linear. NBC provided value number 1. Peacock might've been low. YouTube, we see over and over, it's not as high as everyone thinks. Prime Video, depending on when you bought. Having unified measurement, which is there is no alternative product to it, that is what is the number 1 need for marketers today. I think as we go forward, our revenue in CTV will continue to accelerate. The overall metrics of the business will continue to accelerate. But it's really due to that it's just the best product. Over time, advertisers figure it out, I think investors will figure it out, too. For the first time, TVision puts all four of those, we measure all of them as an independent provider. for the first time tvision puts all four of those we measure all of them as an independent provider Now you can understand linear. now you can understand linear NBC provided value number 1. nbc provided value number 1 Peacock might've been low. peacock might've been low YouTube, we see over and over, it's not as high as everyone thinks. youtube we see over and over it's not as high as everyone thinks Prime Video, depending on when you bought. prime video depending on when you bought Having unified measurement, which is there is no alternative product to it, that is what is the number 1 need for marketers today. having unified measurement which is there is no alternative product to it that is what is the number 1 need for marketers today I think as we go forward, our revenue in CTV will continue to accelerate. i think as we go forward our revenue in ctv will continue to accelerate The overall metrics of the business will continue to accelerate. the overall metrics of the business will continue to accelerate But it's really due to that it's just the best product. but it's really due to that it's just the best product Over time, advertisers figure it out, I think investors will figure it out, too. over time advertisers figure it out i think investors will figure it out too

Speaker 2: Why wouldn't you sell, if that TVision really does such a critical need in the measurement space to put walled gardens versus the open internet, why wouldn't you sell that, productize it to sell it separately also? As a measurement product. Why wouldn't you sell, if that TVision really does such a critical need in the measurement space to put walled gardens versus the open internet, why wouldn't you sell that, productize it to sell it separately also? why wouldn't you sell if that tvision really does such a critical need in the measurement space to put walled gardens versus the open internet why wouldn't you sell that productize it to sell it separately also As a measurement product. as a measurement product

Speaker 3: Sure Sure sure

Speaker 2: Maybe other DSPs can integrate it, but. Maybe other DSPs can integrate it, but. maybe other dsps can integrate it but

Speaker 3: We do. We do sell it. Advertisers buy the measurement, the content owners buy the measurement. When it comes to media activation, that's exclusive to our DSP. We do. we do We do sell it. we do sell it Advertisers buy the measurement, the content owners buy the measurement. advertisers buy the measurement the content owners buy the measurement When it comes to media activation, that's exclusive to our DSP. when it comes to media activation that's exclusive to our dsp

Speaker 1: That makes sense. That makes sense. that makes sense

Speaker 3: Yeah. We are garnering revenue across the board. All of our competitors would like to have it. Yeah. yeah We are garnering revenue across the board. we are garnering revenue across the board All of our competitors would like to have it. all of our competitors would like to have it

Speaker 2: They could've bought it as of last month. They could've bought it as of last month. they could've bought it as of last month

Speaker 3: They could've, and some of them licensed the data. We chose to acquire it, and there's contracts out that we're going to let expire, and we will pull that data back in to be exclusive to our DSP. Now, why do we want to do that? Nielsen is the currency in linear TV. We're not interested in being a currency from measurement. The old way was measuring potential reach. We'll just say that's what Nielsen does a good job at. When it comes down to being the currency today, this is the RTB transaction. I'm about to buy an ad from Peacock. What's the price of this ad? We think by putting it into a DSP, that's the best way to understand the value of one ad impression versus another. They could've, and some of them licensed the data. they could've and some of them licensed the data We chose to acquire it, and there's contracts out that we're going to let expire, and we will pull that data back in to be exclusive to our DSP. we chose to acquire it and there's contracts out that we're going to let expire and we will pull that data back in to be exclusive to our dsp Now, why do we want to do that? now why do we want to do that Nielsen is the currency in linear TV. nielsen is the currency in linear tv We're not interested in being a currency from measurement. we're not interested in being a currency from measurement The old way was measuring potential reach. the old way was measuring potential reach We'll just say that's what Nielsen does a good job at. we'll just say that's what nielsen does a good job at When it comes down to being the currency today, this is the RTB transaction. when it comes down to being the currency today this is the rtb transaction I'm about to buy an ad from Peacock. i'm about to buy an ad from peacock What's the price of this ad? what's the price of this ad We think by putting it into a DSP, that's the best way to understand the value of one ad impression versus another. we think by putting it into a dsp that's the best way to understand the value of one ad impression versus another

Speaker 1: Right. Right. right

Speaker 2: You have this thing called CPM adjusted. You have this thing called CPM adjusted. you have this thing called cpm adjusted

Speaker 3: Attention-Adjusted CPM. Attention-Adjusted CPM. attention-adjusted cpm

Speaker 2: That's what it is. That's what it is. that's what it is

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 2: Attention-Adjusted. If there's three people sitting in the room, you can pay a little more and win the bid because you're reaching three people, not one person. Attention-Adjusted. attention-adjusted If there's three people sitting in the room, you can pay a little more and win the bid because you're reaching three people, not one person. if there's three people sitting in the room you can pay a little more and win the bid because you're reaching three people not one person

Speaker 3: Exactly. Exactly. exactly

Speaker 2: If somebody's not paying attention, you're bidding half as much because they're not paying attention anyway. If somebody's not paying attention, you're bidding half as much because they're not paying attention anyway. if somebody's not paying attention you're bidding half as much because they're not paying attention anyway

Speaker 3: Exactly. Exactly. exactly

Speaker 2: It's a low impact CPM. It's a low impact CPM. it's a low impact cpm

Speaker 3: Just to add to that, the only people that have that information are the advertisers that work with Viant. They're the only ones who have the information ahead of time. We represent the advertiser, we want them to have the strategic advantage. Just to add to that, the only people that have that information are the advertisers that work with Viant. just to add to that the only people that have that information are the advertisers that work with viant They're the only ones who have the information ahead of time. they're the only ones who have the information ahead of time We represent the advertiser, we want them to have the strategic advantage. we represent the advertiser we want them to have the strategic advantage

Speaker 2: When you sell it to third parties, it can't be ahead of the activation. When you sell it to third parties, it can't be ahead of the activation. when you sell it to third parties it can't be ahead of the activation

Speaker 3: If I was selling it to Peacock, they're going to raise the price. Do you see what I mean? If I was selling it to Peacock, they're going to raise the price. if i was selling it to peacock they're going to raise the price Do you see what I mean? do you see what i mean

Speaker 2: No. I don't see what you mean. No. no I don't see what you mean. i don't see what you mean

Speaker 3: If Peacock was aware there are three females If Peacock was aware there are three females if peacock was aware there are three females

Speaker 2: I see I see i see

Speaker 3: are 18 to 54, they would raise the price of the CPM for that one ad impression. are 18 to 54, they would raise the price of the CPM for that one ad impression. are 18 to 54 they would raise the price of the cpm for that one ad impression

Speaker 2: I see. How does the product that you're selling to third parties differ from what you're using for activation? I see. i see How does the product that you're selling to third parties differ from what you're using for activation? how does the product that you're selling to third parties differ from what you're using for activation

Speaker 3: It's delayed. It's delayed. it's delayed

Speaker 2: It's delayed. It's delayed. it's delayed

Speaker 1: It's just not in real time. It's just not in real time. it's just not in real time

Speaker 3: It'll tell you. It'll tell you. it'll tell you

Speaker 2: Okay Okay okay

Speaker 3: Let's say for the month. Let's say for the month. let's say for the month

Speaker 2: Oh Oh oh

Speaker 3: Peacock had. Peacock had. peacock had

Speaker 1: Average co-viewing Average co-viewing average co-viewing

Speaker 3: 60% attention. It had 1.4 people on average watching. 60% attention. 60% attention It had 1.4 people on average watching. it had 1.4 people on average watching

Speaker 2: Per screen, all that involved. Per screen, all that involved. per screen all that involved

Speaker 3: Right. Really, marketers. Right. right Really, marketers. really marketers

Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. okay

Speaker 3: That's good to know when you're. That's good to know when you're. that's good to know when you're

Speaker 2: Yeah Yeah yeah

Speaker 3: media planning. media planning. media planning

Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. yes

Speaker 3: You might commit a certain amount of budget, let's say, to NBCUniversal Peacock. But really what you want to do is, Peacock has 5,000 different titles. You might commit a certain amount of budget, let's say, to NBCUniversal Peacock. you might commit a certain amount of budget let's say to nbcuniversal peacock But really what you want to do is, Peacock has 5,000 different titles. but really what you want to do is peacock has 5,000 different titles in CTV underneath their umbrella. in CTV underneath their umbrella. in ctv underneath their umbrella

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 3: Every show behaves differently. Every show behaves differently. every show behaves differently

Speaker 2: That's true. That's true. that's true

Speaker 3: Right? Right? right

Speaker 1: Second by second, it's different. Second by second, it's different. second by second it's different

Speaker 3: Right. The marketer wants to have the advantage of the information to know this impression right here, before this ad pod, before the javelin throw in the Olympics. Right. right The marketer wants to have the advantage of the information to know this impression right here, before this ad pod, before the javelin throw in the Olympics. the marketer wants to have the advantage of the information to know this impression right here before this ad pod before the javelin throw in the olympics

Speaker 2: Right Right right

Speaker 3: What is the co-viewership? How many people are in the room? How many of them are actually paying attention second by second? If it has really high attention signals, you might bid up. What is the co-viewership? what is the co-viewership How many people are in the room? how many people are in the room How many of them are actually paying attention second by second? how many of them are actually paying attention second by second If it has really high attention signals, you might bid up. if it has really high attention signals you might bid up You might bid a little more. If it has low, you might bid less or not at all. You might bid a little more. you might bid a little more If it has low, you might bid less or not at all. if it has low you might bid less or not at all The point of advertising is to grab the attention of the consumer so that they're watching, so they watch for as long of your 30 seconds as you have them. The point of advertising is to grab the attention of the consumer so that they're watching, so they watch for as long of your 30 seconds as you have them. the point of advertising is to grab the attention of the consumer so that they're watching so they watch for as long of your 30 seconds as you have them You have to gain the attention of the actual consumer. You have to gain the attention of the actual consumer. you have to gain the attention of the actual consumer

Speaker 1: Persuade them. Persuade them. persuade them

Speaker 3: Yes. Yes. yes

Speaker 2: Do you guys feel like this pushes you into content? Because content is a really big driver to whether people sit in the room and watch the full ad. Do you guys feel like this pushes you into content? do you guys feel like this pushes you into content Because content is a really big driver to whether people sit in the room and watch the full ad. because content is a really big driver to whether people sit in the room and watch the full ad

Speaker 3: We license the data to the content owners and it's Netflix, it's Prime Video. We license the data to the content owners and it's Netflix, it's Prime Video. we license the data to the content owners and it's netflix it's prime video

Speaker 2: I was thinking the ad. I was thinking the ad. i was thinking the ad

Speaker 3: the ad. the ad. the ad

Speaker 2: The ad content, not the programming. The ad content, not the programming. the ad content not the programming

Speaker 3: Absolutely Absolutely absolutely

Speaker 2: content. content. content

Speaker 3: That's what's on the product pipeline. we've showed off ViantAI, which does autonomous media planning. It implements it executes the campaign, it optimizes after reading the reports. Making the ad is the next critical component. I'd listen to John Wren of Omnicom, and he mentioned it's all about media, and I think where the profits currently are is media, but I think you're going to see creative and media come back together. the best example I can give you is if I know I'm going to show a 30-second spot on "The Kardashians" on Friday night, why wouldn't I make a custom 30-second ad for that? now with GenAI, you have the ability to make that ad for $1,000, whereas before, TV ad production cost $1 million for 10 spots. they're all basically the same, slightly different. That's what's on the product pipeline. we've showed off ViantAI, which does autonomous media planning. that's what's on the product pipeline we've showed off viantai which does autonomous media planning It implements it executes the campaign, it optimizes after reading the reports. it implements it executes the campaign it optimizes after reading the reports Making the ad is the next critical component. making the ad is the next critical component I'd listen to John Wren of Omnicom, and he mentioned it's all about media, and I think where the profits currently are is media, but I think you're going to see creative and media come back together. the best example I can give you is if I know I'm going to show a 30-second spot on "The Kardashians" on Friday night, why wouldn't I make a custom 30-second ad for that? now with GenAI, you have the ability to make that ad for $1,000, whereas before, TV ad production cost $1 million for 10 spots. they're all basically the same, slightly different. i'd listen to john wren of omnicom and he mentioned it's all about media and i think where the profits currently are is media but i think you're going to see creative and media come back together the best example i can give you is if i know i'm going to show a 30-second spot on "the kardashians" on friday night why wouldn't i make a custom 30-second ad for that now with genai you have the ability to make that ad for $1,000 whereas before tv ad production cost $1 million for 10 spots they're all basically the same slightly different if I know where the ad is going to be placed ahead of time, I can actually make a custom creative. when you put the creative matching the content, the performance, the attention, the persuadability, and ultimately the buy rate, the conversion rate into sales skyrockets, and that's where advertising is going to have a renaissance and where GenAI plays a big role. if I know where the ad is going to be placed ahead of time, I can actually make a custom creative. when you put the creative matching the content, the performance, the attention, the persuadability, and ultimately the buy rate, the conversion rate into sales skyrockets, and that's where advertising is going to have a renaissance and where GenAI plays a big role. if i know where the ad is going to be placed ahead of time i can actually make a custom creative when you put the creative matching the content the performance the attention the persuadability and ultimately the buy rate the conversion rate into sales skyrockets and that's where advertising is going to have a renaissance and where genai plays a big role

Speaker 2: What I was thinking on product roadmap is since you can tell ahead of time, you can A/B test five ads that you create. Let's say they deliver you one piece of creative that they've approved. You can do five things. What I was thinking on product roadmap is since you can tell ahead of time, you can A/B test five ads that you create. what i was thinking on product roadmap is since you can tell ahead of time you can a/b test five ads that you create Let's say they deliver you one piece of creative that they've approved. let's say they deliver you one piece of creative that they've approved You can do five things. you can do five things

Speaker 3: You can modify. You can modify. you can modify

Speaker 2: Turning the watch over, you can turn it into blues, then do A/B testing over the first five ad blocks then say, "Okay, the one that works best is the red one that doesn't move. Turning the watch over, you can turn it into blues, then do A/B testing over the first five ad blocks then say, "Okay, the one that works best is the red one that doesn't move. turning the watch over you can turn it into blues then do a/b testing over the first five ad blocks then say "okay the one that works best is the red one that doesn't move

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 2: Serve that one the rest of the time. It feels like that's a natural place for you guys to go, given that you can do these very fine distinctions about what's holding customer attention versus what's getting people to look at their phone. Serve that one the rest of the time. serve that one the rest of the time It feels like that's a natural place for you guys to go, given that you can do these very fine distinctions about what's holding customer attention versus what's getting people to look at their phone. it feels like that's a natural place for you guys to go given that you can do these very fine distinctions about what's holding customer attention versus what's getting people to look at their phone

Speaker 3: Yeah. What GenAI gives you the ability right now, a marketer like Molson Coors, one of our customers, they only have 10 spots for Coors Light. Why? Because the ad production shoot is $1 million plus dollars. They can't go do another shoot. The longevity, it takes forever. Yeah. yeah What GenAI gives you the ability right now, a marketer like Molson Coors, one of our customers, they only have 10 spots for Coors Light. what genai gives you the ability right now a marketer like molson coors one of our customers they only have 10 spots for coors light Why? why Because the ad production shoot is $1 million plus dollars. because the ad production shoot is $1 million plus dollars They can't go do another shoot. they can't go do another shoot The longevity, it takes forever. the longevity it takes forever

Speaker 2: Yeah Yeah yeah

Speaker 3: The timeframe. Now you can start with a baseline ad. Let's say it has 60% attention, and the goal is improvement. The timeframe. the timeframe Now you can start with a baseline ad. now you can start with a baseline ad Let's say it has 60% attention, and the goal is improvement. let's say it has 60% attention and the goal is improvement

Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. yes

Speaker 3: 60%-65%, 65%-70%. That way, the working media dollars are actually working harder. 60%-65%, 65%-70%. 60%-65% 65%-70% That way, the working media dollars are actually working harder. that way the working media dollars are actually working harder

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 3: You're leveraging creative as another lever to do that. You're leveraging creative as another lever to do that. you're leveraging creative as another lever to do that

Speaker 1: If you look at a trend over in the social space, if you look at Meta, they do all of their Advantage+ system when those e-commerce marketers come in. They control all the targeting and the media optimization. Meta controls all of that. If you look at a trend over in the social space, if you look at Meta, they do all of their Advantage+ system when those e-commerce marketers come in. if you look at a trend over in the social space if you look at meta they do all of their advantage+ system when those e-commerce marketers come in They control all the targeting and the media optimization. they control all the targeting and the media optimization Meta controls all of that. meta controls all of that

Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. okay

Speaker 1: What is the advertiser responsible for? Creative. The trend in that for the last two years is more and more and more creative. They have to pump out so much creative. What Meta needs is to be able to make, whatever you're watching on Instagram Reels, if you're looking at mine What is the advertiser responsible for? what is the advertiser responsible for Creative. creative The trend in that for the last two years is more and more and more creative. the trend in that for the last two years is more and more and more creative They have to pump out so much creative. they have to pump out so much creative What Meta needs is to be able to make, whatever you're watching on Instagram Reels, if you're looking at mine what meta needs is to be able to make whatever you're watching on instagram reels if you're looking at mine I can't chip worth a damn right now in golf, I'm just watching short game chip stuff, next thing you know, what am I getting? I'm getting an ad for a golf aid for chipping. They have ads matched to micro-categories of content. That shows you. Some of these advertisers are pumping out hundreds of pieces of creative every month. It's cheaper than television creative. I can't chip worth a damn right now in golf, I'm just watching short game chip stuff, next thing you know, what am I getting? i can't chip worth a damn right now in golf i'm just watching short game chip stuff next thing you know what am i getting I'm getting an ad for a golf aid for chipping. i'm getting an ad for a golf aid for chipping They have ads matched to micro-categories of content. they have ads matched to micro-categories of content That shows you. that shows you Some of these advertisers are pumping out hundreds of pieces of creative every month. some of these advertisers are pumping out hundreds of pieces of creative every month It's cheaper than television creative. it's cheaper than television creative That is where the future is going. A Molson Coors needs to be able to create hundreds or thousands of variations of creative to match the content. Is it NFL football? Cool. Make a football-themed ad. Is it Kardashians? Make it women-themed. Whatever it is, you want to theme the creative so that it matches the content. To Tim's point, it grabs attention. Every one percentage point that the marketer gets in attention, every increase- That is where the future is going. that is where the future is going A Molson Coors needs to be able to create hundreds or thousands of variations of creative to match the content. a molson coors needs to be able to create hundreds or thousands of variations of creative to match the content Is it NFL football? is it nfl football Cool. cool Make a football-themed ad. make a football-themed ad Is it Kardashians? is it kardashians Make it women-themed. make it women-themed Whatever it is, you want to theme the creative so that it matches the content. whatever it is you want to theme the creative so that it matches the content To Tim's point, it grabs attention. to tim's point it grabs attention Every one percentage point that the marketer gets in attention, every increase- every one percentage point that the marketer gets in attention every increase- it's a 1% increase in awareness for their product, a 1% increase in ad recall, and what we need to do now is tie Outcomes, the sales. it's a 1% increase in awareness for their product, a 1% increase in ad recall, and what we need to do now is tie Outcomes, the sales. it's a 1% increase in awareness for their product a 1% increase in ad recall and what we need to do now is tie outcomes the sales What does that translate into sales? What does that translate into sales? what does that translate into sales

Speaker 2: You would have a different business model because wouldn't you take a percentage of the lift in the outcome and the percentage sales lift? You would have a different business model because wouldn't you take a percentage of the lift in the outcome and the percentage sales lift? you would have a different business model because wouldn't you take a percentage of the lift in the outcome and the percentage sales lift

Speaker 3: A commission on selling the product. We'll see where the business model goes to, but ultimately, if you have an advertising engine that moves product off the shelves, that's very valuable. Whatever the right business model is, it'll reveal itself to us. A commission on selling the product. a commission on selling the product We'll see where the business model goes to, but ultimately, if you have an advertising engine that moves product off the shelves, that's very valuable. we'll see where the business model goes to but ultimately if you have an advertising engine that moves product off the shelves that's very valuable Whatever the right business model is, it'll reveal itself to us. whatever the right business model is it'll reveal itself to us

Speaker 2: Okay, you think you're moving. You think that this new TVision with the attention actually helps you drive Outcomes which then maybe implies a different business model for you? Okay, you think you're moving. okay you think you're moving You think that this new TVision with the attention actually helps you drive Outcomes which then maybe implies a different business model for you? you think that this new tvision with the attention actually helps you drive outcomes which then maybe implies a different business model for you

Speaker 3: Over the long term, it implies a different business model. Today, as a percentage of the spend is the way that it operates today. That's a frictionless way to drive revenue. Obviously, we're public, and we're worried about quarterly results- Over the long term, it implies a different business model. over the long term it implies a different business model Today, as a percentage of the spend is the way that it operates today. today as a percentage of the spend is the way that it operates today That's a frictionless way to drive revenue. that's a frictionless way to drive revenue Obviously, we're public, and we're worried about quarterly results- obviously we're public and we're worried about quarterly results-

Speaker 2: Yeah Yeah yeah

Speaker 3: throwing a brand-new business model- throwing a brand-new business model- throwing a brand-new business model-

Speaker 2: Yeah Yeah yeah

Speaker 3: as a public company is harder. as a public company is harder. as a public company is harder

Speaker 2: Risky business, yeah. Risky business, yeah. risky business yeah

Speaker 3: Certainly, if you're making the ads, you're automating the creation of the ad campaign, the optimization of the campaign. Certainly, if you're making the ads, you're automating the creation of the ad campaign, the optimization of the campaign. certainly if you're making the ads you're automating the creation of the ad campaign the optimization of the campaign In a self-reinforcing loop. That is very valuable. I think with the acquisition of TVision. In a self-reinforcing loop. in a self-reinforcing loop That is very valuable. that is very valuable I think with the acquisition of TVision. i think with the acquisition of tvision Our focus on strategic proprietary data that's valuable, that we've described, we're transforming from what was a once media execution platform, like The Trade Desk or DV360, into an advertising intelligence company. That's where I see our transition moving, one that offers proprietary data that doesn't exist anywhere else, independent measurement, and then media execution, all in a self-reinforcing loop. To me, that's an advertising intelligence company, and that's our future. Our focus on strategic proprietary data that's valuable, that we've described, we're transforming from what was a once media execution platform, like The Trade Desk or DV360, into an advertising intelligence company. our focus on strategic proprietary data that's valuable that we've described we're transforming from what was a once media execution platform like the trade desk or dv360 into an advertising intelligence company That's where I see our transition moving, one that offers proprietary data that doesn't exist anywhere else, independent measurement, and then media execution, all in a self-reinforcing loop. that's where i see our transition moving one that offers proprietary data that doesn't exist anywhere else independent measurement and then media execution all in a self-reinforcing loop To me, that's an advertising intelligence company, and that's our future. to me that's an advertising intelligence company and that's our future

Speaker 2: One of the things that a lot of DSPs have done is layer in data, like 300 data providers when you're making audience segments. One of the things that a lot of DSPs have done is layer in data, like 300 data providers when you're making audience segments. one of the things that a lot of dsps have done is layer in data like 300 data providers when you're making audience segments

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 2: Are you now in channel conflict with those because you have these two proprietary data assets, so you lose all the revenue you were making from those. Are you now in channel conflict with those because you have these two proprietary data assets, so you lose all the revenue you were making from those. are you now in channel conflict with those because you have these two proprietary data assets so you lose all the revenue you were making from those

Speaker 3: I- I- i-

Speaker 2: 300 third party? 300 third party? 300 third party

Speaker 1: No. Take a look at IRIS.TV. It's a one-of-one solution. They're the only ones that went out and did the dirty work. No. no Take a look at IRIS.TV. take a look at iris.tv It's a one-of-one solution. it's a one-of-one solution They're the only ones that went out and did the dirty work. they're the only ones that went out and did the dirty work

Speaker 2: Show level Show level show level

Speaker 1: heavy lifting to go out to the content owners, do all the integration with 1,900 different content management systems, gain the trust of the content owners to be able to send all their video files of every show and episode that they have, let them index it, run all the computer vision, what's this video about, and then pass it through the bid stream. There is no competitor to it, and we acquired it. heavy lifting to go out to the content owners, do all the integration with 1,900 different content management systems, gain the trust of the content owners to be able to send all their video files of every show and episode that they have, let them index it, run all the computer vision, what's this video about, and then pass it through the bid stream. heavy lifting to go out to the content owners do all the integration with 1,900 different content management systems gain the trust of the content owners to be able to send all their video files of every show and episode that they have let them index it run all the computer vision what's this video about and then pass it through the bid stream There is no competitor to it, and we acquired it. there is no competitor to it and we acquired it

Speaker 2: No channel conflict? No channel conflict? no channel conflict

Speaker 1: No channel conflict. There's no other content identifier in the bid stream. It's only IRIS.TV. No channel conflict. no channel conflict There's no other content identifier in the bid stream. there's no other content identifier in the bid stream It's only IRIS.TV. it's only iris.tv

Speaker 3: There's no other TVision. There's no other TVision. there's no other tvision

Speaker 1: Yeah Yeah yeah

Speaker 3: U.S.-based panel. There's Nielsen, but it's a people meter, 1989 technology. We have a camera that's passive that does facial recognition, and no one does anything, and it's just automated. These are one-for-one assets that we look for. That's what we're looking for in M&A. To understand that Tim Vanderhook's email is blank blank blank @gmail.com. I don't want to do it on video. I'm going to get spam. U.S.-based panel. u.s.-based panel There's Nielsen, but it's a people meter, 1989 technology. there's nielsen but it's a people meter 1989 technology We have a camera that's passive that does facial recognition, and no one does anything, and it's just automated. we have a camera that's passive that does facial recognition and no one does anything and it's just automated These are one-for-one assets that we look for. these are one-for-one assets that we look for That's what we're looking for in M&A. that's what we're looking for in m&a To understand that Tim Vanderhook's email is blank blank blank @gmail.com. to understand that tim vanderhook's email is blank blank blank @gmail.com I don't want to do it on video. i don't want to do it on video I'm going to get spam. i'm going to get spam

Speaker 1: We get enough spam. We get enough spam. we get enough spam

Speaker 3: Just to know someone's email address, that's commodity data. There's lots of third-party commodity data. Most of it is stale. People know what car I drive, that I drive a Tesla. You can get that data from 100 different providers. In the end, does that data have value? It has some value versus not knowing it. When there's 10 providers with the data, ultimately, it gets commoditized, and that's most of the data that's out there today. There is very valuable data assets out there. Just to know someone's email address, that's commodity data. just to know someone's email address that's commodity data There's lots of third-party commodity data. there's lots of third-party commodity data Most of it is stale. most of it is stale People know what car I drive, that I drive a Tesla. people know what car i drive that i drive a tesla You can get that data from 100 different providers. you can get that data from 100 different providers In the end, does that data have value? in the end does that data have value It has some value versus not knowing it. it has some value versus not knowing it When there's 10 providers with the data, ultimately, it gets commoditized, and that's most of the data that's out there today. when there's 10 providers with the data ultimately it gets commoditized and that's most of the data that's out there today There is very valuable data assets out there. there is very valuable data assets out there Very few. Very few. very few

Speaker 1: As part of our strategy, when we go and pitch a marketer, and they're like, "Hey, I'm using another DSP already. The only reason why I would switch is if you have unique data that's exclusive to you, or you represent content that I can't get anywhere else. Which one of those two are you? Tell me. As part of our strategy, when we go and pitch a marketer, and they're like, "Hey, I'm using another DSP already. as part of our strategy when we go and pitch a marketer and they're like "hey i'm using another dsp already The only reason why I would switch is if you have unique data that's exclusive to you, or you represent content that I can't get anywhere else. the only reason why i would switch is if you have unique data that's exclusive to you or you represent content that i can't get anywhere else Which one of those two are you? which one of those two are you Tell me. tell me For years, it was okay to compete in the space because you could win two out of 10 marketers. For years, it was okay to compete in the space because you could win two out of 10 marketers. for years it was okay to compete in the space because you could win two out of 10 marketers If you want someone to switch, you have to have something exclusive to you that they want. If you want someone to switch, you have to have something exclusive to you that they want. if you want someone to switch you have to have something exclusive to you that they want

Speaker 3: That's very valuable. That's very valuable. that's very valuable

Speaker 2: One of the things that's come up on this stage a lot over the last couple of days is there's sort of a new entrance on DSPs using agentic buying platforms. One of the things that's come up on this stage a lot over the last couple of days is there's sort of a new entrance on DSPs using agentic buying platforms. one of the things that's come up on this stage a lot over the last couple of days is there's sort of a new entrance on dsps using agentic buying platforms

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 2: There's this One of the reasons the stocks are under pressure, I think, on the DSP side is we're not seeing this on the SSP side because you got to get a guy to adopt your agents. On the DSP side, it's cheaper to enter the market now and then just be a buyer. Sort of talk to that competitive threat about how agentic systems make the entry into your competitive set of DSPs more competitive. There's this One of the reasons the stocks are under pressure, I think, on the DSP side is we're not seeing this on the SSP side because you got to get a guy to adopt your agents. there's this one of the reasons the stocks are under pressure i think on the dsp side is we're not seeing this on the ssp side because you got to get a guy to adopt your agents On the DSP side, it's cheaper to enter the market now and then just be a buyer. on the dsp side it's cheaper to enter the market now and then just be a buyer Sort of talk to that competitive threat about how agentic systems make the entry into your competitive set of DSPs more competitive. sort of talk to that competitive threat about how agentic systems make the entry into your competitive set of dsps more competitive

Speaker 3: Yeah. If you go to buy, let's say, 100 ads- Yeah. yeah If you go to buy, let's say, 100 ads- if you go to buy let's say 100 ads- 99.9% of the time, you would buy the wrong ads- 99.9% of the time, you would buy the wrong ads- 99.9% of the time you would buy the wrong ads-

Speaker 2: Okay Okay okay

Speaker 3: if you used agentic. I think, again, it comes back to which users within Peacock or within ESPN- if you used agentic. if you used agentic I think, again, it comes back to which users within Peacock or within ESPN- i think again it comes back to which users within peacock or within espn- are you going to buy out of the 100 that are presented to you, and answering the question why. The agentic protocol exists today. There's very little adoption. are you going to buy out of the 100 that are presented to you, and answering the question why. are you going to buy out of the 100 that are presented to you and answering the question why The agentic protocol exists today. the agentic protocol exists today There's very little adoption. there's very little adoption

Speaker 2: Right. Right. right

Speaker 3: The technical capability is there. The technical capability is there. the technical capability is there

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 3: In our business, if that were to come and come to fruition, we would lose no customers because our customers choose us because we have IRIS.TV, because we now have TVision, and because we have Household ID. We can resolve back to we know this is Chris Vanderhook's household. We know he's watching this show, and we know he's likely in market for Coors Light. He's in market for Coors Light all the time. In our business, if that were to come and come to fruition, we would lose no customers because our customers choose us because we have IRIS.TV, because we now have TVision, and because we have Household ID. in our business if that were to come and come to fruition we would lose no customers because our customers choose us because we have iris.tv because we now have tvision and because we have household id We can resolve back to we know this is Chris Vanderhook's household. we can resolve back to we know this is chris vanderhook's household We know he's watching this show, and we know he's likely in market for Coors Light. we know he's watching this show and we know he's likely in market for coors light He's in market for Coors Light all the time. he's in market for coors light all the time

Speaker 2: All the time, because now you have to drink Molson. All the time, because now you have to drink Molson. all the time because now you have to drink molson

Speaker 3: Post earnings. Post earnings. post earnings

Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. yes

Speaker 3: Post earnings, you're always in market for Coors Light. That's what I mean is, again, it all comes back to your value proposition is about exclusive data. It's not that we can bid and buy an impression. Because agentic or RTB, everyone can already bid and buy an impression. Let's say it gets cheaper, great. Our operating costs drop and our EBITDA skyrockets. Post earnings, you're always in market for Coors Light. post earnings you're always in market for coors light That's what I mean is, again, it all comes back to your value proposition is about exclusive data. that's what i mean is again it all comes back to your value proposition is about exclusive data It's not that we can bid and buy an impression. it's not that we can bid and buy an impression Because agentic or RTB, everyone can already bid and buy an impression. because agentic or rtb everyone can already bid and buy an impression Let's say it gets cheaper, great. let's say it gets cheaper great Our operating costs drop and our EBITDA skyrockets. our operating costs drop and our ebitda skyrockets

Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. okay

Speaker 3: That's the real reason why we want agentic to happen, and I hope the adoption happens faster. No one's choosing us because we have the RTB protocol. There's 1,000 DSPs that are involved in the RTB protocol today. There could might be 10,000 in the agentic protocol of tomorrow. That's the real reason why we want agentic to happen, and I hope the adoption happens faster. that's the real reason why we want agentic to happen and i hope the adoption happens faster No one's choosing us because we have the RTB protocol. no one's choosing us because we have the rtb protocol There's 1,000 DSPs that are involved in the RTB protocol today. there's 1,000 dsps that are involved in the rtb protocol today There could might be 10,000 in the agentic protocol of tomorrow. there could might be 10,000 in the agentic protocol of tomorrow

Speaker 2: Right. Right. right

Speaker 3: What I mean by that is there's tons of competition for bidding and buying for ads. The advantage is which users should I buy, what price should I pay, and what's the estimated ROI to the advertiser? What I mean by that is there's tons of competition for bidding and buying for ads. what i mean by that is there's tons of competition for bidding and buying for ads The advantage is which users should I buy, what price should I pay, and what's the estimated ROI to the advertiser? the advantage is which users should i buy what price should i pay and what's the estimated roi to the advertiser

Speaker 2: Let's go back. One of the things you said up front is we really believe that single-sided DSPs are the way to play. Let's go back. let's go back One of the things you said up front is we really believe that single-sided DSPs are the way to play. one of the things you said up front is we really believe that single-sided dsps are the way to play

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 2: Well, you just said, Wall Street agrees, that unique supply, either content or ad units that are unique- Well, you just said, Wall Street agrees, that unique supply, either content or ad units that are unique- well you just said wall street agrees that unique supply either content or ad units that are unique-

Speaker 3: Sure Sure sure

Speaker 2: are actually preferenced, like they have pricing power. Just like unique data, which you guys now have bought. are actually preferenced, like they have pricing power. are actually preferenced like they have pricing power Just like unique data, which you guys now have bought. just like unique data which you guys now have bought

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm-hmm. mm-hmm Yep. yep

Speaker 2: Why wouldn't an acquisition of a proprietary content base becoming two-sided be actually on your roadmap of M&A? Why wouldn't an acquisition of a proprietary content base becoming two-sided be actually on your roadmap of M&A? why wouldn't an acquisition of a proprietary content base becoming two-sided be actually on your roadmap of m&a

Speaker 1: Well, let's see, like by YouTube? If you think about it, if I owned content, let's say that we turned MySpace ad-supported, which it's not ad-supported at all today because we were tired of nasty articles being written about us. We said, "That's it. Take all the ads off. It's not worth it. Well, let's see, like by YouTube? well let's see like by youtube If you think about it, if I owned content, let's say that we turned MySpace ad-supported, which it's not ad-supported at all today because we were tired of nasty articles being written about us. if you think about it if i owned content let's say that we turned myspace ad-supported which it's not ad-supported at all today because we were tired of nasty articles being written about us We said, "That's it. we said "that's it Take all the ads off. take all the ads off It's not worth it. it's not worth it

Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. okay

Speaker 1: It has to be large enough It has to be large enough it has to be large enough

Speaker 2: Yeah Yeah yeah

Speaker 1: for it to draw a large marketer. for it to draw a large marketer. for it to draw a large marketer

Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. okay

Speaker 1: If you bought some news publication If you bought some news publication if you bought some news publication

Speaker 3: We call it, is your content of high enough quality or reach that you're a must-buy. We call it, is your content of high enough quality or reach that you're a must-buy. we call it is your content of high enough quality or reach that you're a must-buy

Speaker 1: Right. Right. right

Speaker 3: There's very few must-buys. Let's say there's 10 or less that are out there. There's very few must-buys. there's very few must-buys Let's say there's 10 or less that are out there. let's say there's 10 or less that are out there

Speaker 1: Yeah. That's not in our thinking. It's also not in our thinking because it would just change the thesis of the company. Yeah. yeah That's not in our thinking. that's not in our thinking It's also not in our thinking because it would just change the thesis of the company. it's also not in our thinking because it would just change the thesis of the company If I become a content owner, my business model completely switches. If you're the marketer, it's not about doing what's best for you. I need to fill that inventory. If I become a content owner, my business model completely switches. if i become a content owner my business model completely switches If you're the marketer, it's not about doing what's best for you. if you're the marketer it's not about doing what's best for you I need to fill that inventory. i need to fill that inventory

Speaker 3: You're maximizing margin. You're maximizing margin. you're maximizing margin

Speaker 1: That's my number one priority. Xumo, our previous business. That's my number one priority. that's my number one priority Xumo, our previous business. xumo our previous business We were on the sell side. That's what that business was. We were on the sell side. we were on the sell side That's what that business was. that's what that business was

Speaker 3: You get 100 ads that you can sell. You must fill all 100, otherwise your margin is less. You fill it whether it's good for the advertiser or not. You get 100 ads that you can sell. you get 100 ads that you can sell You must fill all 100, otherwise your margin is less. you must fill all 100 otherwise your margin is less You fill it whether it's good for the advertiser or not. you fill it whether it's good for the advertiser or not

Speaker 1: We- We- we-

Speaker 3: This is why, as a buyer of ads, you can't trust a seller to actually deliver the ads for you. This is why, as a buyer of ads, you can't trust a seller to actually deliver the ads for you. this is why as a buyer of ads you can't trust a seller to actually deliver the ads for you

Speaker 1: We give. We give. we give

Speaker 3: They're going to give you the worst ads. They're going to give you the worst ads. they're going to give you the worst ads

Speaker 1: Yeah. We gave a talk at Xumo once, and we had one slide, and it said, "CPM times fill rate equals your business. Yeah. yeah We gave a talk at Xumo once, and we had one slide, and it said, "CPM times fill rate equals your business. we gave a talk at xumo once and we had one slide and it said "cpm times fill rate equals your business

Speaker 2: Your business. Your business. your business

Speaker 1: We were telling the team, like, "Get religion on this. We have to fill more ads." If you're a content owner, that's your business model. It's not bad. We're not saying it's evil. It's just that you can't actually- We were telling the team, like, "Get religion on this. we were telling the team like "get religion on this We have to fill more ads." If you're a content owner, that's your business model. we have to fill more ads." if you're a content owner that's your business model It's not bad. it's not bad We're not saying it's evil. we're not saying it's evil It's just that you can't actually- it's just that you can't actually-

Speaker 3: It's a conflict It's a conflict it's a conflict

Speaker 1: service the marketer because my incentives are conflicted. We don't want to do that. I think that the proprietary data piece is all angled towards when we go and talk to a marketer, I want to figure out a way to grow your business. I would say we're getting RFP'd a lot right now. The ones where we are most- service the marketer because my incentives are conflicted. service the marketer because my incentives are conflicted We don't want to do that. we don't want to do that I think that the proprietary data piece is all angled towards when we go and talk to a marketer, I want to figure out a way to grow your business. i think that the proprietary data piece is all angled towards when we go and talk to a marketer i want to figure out a way to grow your business I would say we're getting RFP'd a lot right now. i would say we're getting rfp'd a lot right now The ones where we are most- the ones where we are most-

Speaker 2: RFP. Define. RFP. rfp Define. define

Speaker 1: Oh, RFP, request for proposal. marketers- Oh, RFP, request for proposal. marketers- oh rfp request for proposal marketers-

Speaker 3: New customers, sales pipeline, baby New customers, sales pipeline, baby new customers sales pipeline baby

Speaker 1: new customers. Yeah. It's- new customers. new customers Yeah. yeah It's- it's-

Speaker 2: Like backlog. Like backlog. like backlog

Speaker 1: The lifeblood of all business, new customers. The ones that we feel that we have the best chance, where we feel we're in the driver's seat, and it's many of them. We look at the corporate earnings of that company, and if they're lagging the top 10 companies in the S&P 500, we know how they spend their money in marketing. They're predominantly giving it to the sell side, Google, Meta, Amazon. The lifeblood of all business, new customers. the lifeblood of all business new customers The ones that we feel that we have the best chance, where we feel we're in the driver's seat, and it's many of them. the ones that we feel that we have the best chance where we feel we're in the driver's seat and it's many of them We look at the corporate earnings of that company, and if they're lagging the top 10 companies in the S&P 500, we know how they spend their money in marketing. we look at the corporate earnings of that company and if they're lagging the top 10 companies in the s&p 500 we know how they spend their money in marketing They're predominantly giving it to the sell side, Google, Meta, Amazon. they're predominantly giving it to the sell side google meta amazon They're spending 60+% of their budget with these guys. They're spending 60+% of their budget with these guys. they're spending 60+% of their budget with these guys

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 1: We know that we can come in with the information and insights and show them how they can actually spend more efficiently, and it'd be like getting. When you work with us, it's like getting another 20% or 30% bump in ad spend from your CMO or your CFO, because not only are we more efficient, but we're going to put those dollars to work much harder. We want to grow their business. We know that we can come in with the information and insights and show them how they can actually spend more efficiently, and it'd be like getting. we know that we can come in with the information and insights and show them how they can actually spend more efficiently and it'd be like getting When you work with us, it's like getting another 20% or 30% bump in ad spend from your CMO or your CFO, because not only are we more efficient, but we're going to put those dollars to work much harder. when you work with us it's like getting another 20% or 30% bump in ad spend from your cmo or your cfo because not only are we more efficient but we're going to put those dollars to work much harder We want to grow their business. we want to grow their business

Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. okay

Speaker 1: Whether that was Molson Coors or Whoop or any of the other ones that we won that we've announced, that is our pitch when we walk in the door. Whether that was Molson Coors or Whoop or any of the other ones that we won that we've announced, that is our pitch when we walk in the door. whether that was molson coors or whoop or any of the other ones that we won that we've announced that is our pitch when we walk in the door

Speaker 3: I would just put it differently as well. The total addressable market for the buy side is the entire advertising industry. I would just put it differently as well. i would just put it differently as well The total addressable market for the buy side is the entire advertising industry. the total addressable market for the buy side is the entire advertising industry

Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. yes

Speaker 3: The total addressable market if you're on the sell side, let's say I'm an SSP or a content owner, is a percentage of those budgets. The total addressable market if you're on the sell side, let's say I'm an SSP or a content owner, is a percentage of those budgets. the total addressable market if you're on the sell side let's say i'm an ssp or a content owner is a percentage of those budgets

Speaker 2: That's true. That's true. that's true

Speaker 3: Okay. That's the way I look at it. I can help Molson Coors spend their entire ad budget, but if I was Prime Video, let's just say, and a great streaming app, you're still going to get a percentage of the share of wallet. YouTube will get a percentage of the share of wallet. I view the TAM when you're on the buy side as the total ad industry versus if you're on the sell side, it's a percentage of the ad industry, depending on your size and scale. Okay. okay That's the way I look at it. that's the way i look at it I can help Molson Coors spend their entire ad budget, but if I was Prime Video, let's just say, and a great streaming app, you're still going to get a percentage of the share of wallet. i can help molson coors spend their entire ad budget but if i was prime video let's just say and a great streaming app you're still going to get a percentage of the share of wallet YouTube will get a percentage of the share of wallet. youtube will get a percentage of the share of wallet I view the TAM when you're on the buy side as the total ad industry versus if you're on the sell side, it's a percentage of the ad industry, depending on your size and scale. i view the tam when you're on the buy side as the total ad industry versus if you're on the sell side it's a percentage of the ad industry depending on your size and scale

Speaker 1: One other point. If I'm Amazon and I have the Amazon DSP, what do I think that their future is? If you want to buy Prime Video One other point. one other point If I'm Amazon and I have the Amazon DSP, what do I think that their future is? if i'm amazon and i have the amazon dsp what do i think that their future is If you want to buy Prime Video if you want to buy prime video

Speaker 2: Yeah Yeah yeah

Speaker 1: You can only buy it through the Amazon DSP, great. That's what's going to get it. You can only buy it through the Amazon DSP, great. you can only buy it through the amazon dsp great That's what's going to get it. that's what's going to get it

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 1: YouTube, the only way to buy it is through DV360. YouTube, the only way to buy it is through DV360. youtube the only way to buy it is through dv360

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 1: Great. They're a walled garden. That's fine. They will get their sliver. For us, we want to be able to sit on top of much of the spend as possible to help the marketer actually grow their business, not just in a small sector. Great. great They're a walled garden. they're a walled garden That's fine. that's fine They will get their sliver. they will get their sliver For us, we want to be able to sit on top of much of the spend as possible to help the marketer actually grow their business, not just in a small sector. for us we want to be able to sit on top of much of the spend as possible to help the marketer actually grow their business not just in a small sector

Speaker 2: All right. I get it. Okay, questions? We have about five minutes left. Any questions for this? Chris? All right. all right I get it. i get it Okay, questions? okay questions We have about five minutes left. we have about five minutes left Any questions for this? any questions for this Chris? chris

Speaker 4: Yeah. How big is the Yeah. yeah How big is the how big is the

Speaker 1: Yeah. The panel in the U.S. is 5,000. It's in the U.S. only. 5,000 households. Yeah. yeah The panel in the U.S. is 5,000. the panel in the u.s is 5,000 It's in the U.S. only. 5,000 households. it's in the u.s only 5,000 households

Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 1: It's about 14,000 people within those households. To compare that to Nielsen's people meter is between 10,000 and 12,000 households. We are a nationally representative sample. Nielsen is both national and local, so they're in 210 DMAs, but they have announced they're retreating from 130 DMAs they're not going to support. You're going to see their panel size shrink. It's too expensive. What's great about the TVision panel, it's a much lower cost to operate the panel. Nielsen sends out a whole team. It takes them three days to interview you and set you up. They have lab coats. It's ridiculous. They literally wear lab coats. It's about 14,000 people within those households. it's about 14,000 people within those households To compare that to Nielsen's people meter is between 10,000 and 12,000 households. to compare that to nielsen's people meter is between 10,000 and 12,000 households We are a nationally representative sample. we are a nationally representative sample Nielsen is both national and local, so they're in 210 DMAs, but they have announced they're retreating from 130 DMAs they're not going to support. nielsen is both national and local so they're in 210 dmas but they have announced they're retreating from 130 dmas they're not going to support You're going to see their panel size shrink. you're going to see their panel size shrink It's too expensive. it's too expensive What's great about the TVision panel, it's a much lower cost to operate the panel. what's great about the tvision panel it's a much lower cost to operate the panel Nielsen sends out a whole team. nielsen sends out a whole team It takes them three days to interview you and set you up. it takes them three days to interview you and set you up They have lab coats. they have lab coats It's ridiculous. it's ridiculous They literally wear lab coats. they literally wear lab coats

Speaker 3: They have high churn. They have high churn. they have high churn

Speaker 1: Yes, very high churn. This is a passive panel. We send a box into the household. They plug it into a power source. It does the ACR of what's on the screen, and then there's a camera that you mount on top of your TV, plug it into a power source. You register on the app, everyone in the household, they take a picture of everyone. Yes, very high churn. yes very high churn This is a passive panel. this is a passive panel We send a box into the household. we send a box into the household They plug it into a power source. they plug it into a power source It does the ACR of what's on the screen, and then there's a camera that you mount on top of your TV, plug it into a power source. it does the acr of what's on the screen and then there's a camera that you mount on top of your tv plug it into a power source You register on the app, everyone in the household, they take a picture of everyone. you register on the app everyone in the household they take a picture of everyone

Speaker 3: It takes three minutes to set up. I have it. I'm a panelist now. You have a box the size of a Mac mini. The camera plugs into the box. You give the QR code because you pre-registered for the panel, you're up and running. You don't have to push buttons. You don't do anything. Our churn rate is very low of people leaving the panel. That's as it stands today. The excitement that we have of the R&D we're doing, what we can provide advertisers with that panel and market is going to be exceptional. It takes three minutes to set up. it takes three minutes to set up I have it. i have it I'm a panelist now. i'm a panelist now You have a box the size of a Mac mini. you have a box the size of a mac mini The camera plugs into the box. the camera plugs into the box You give the QR code because you pre-registered for the panel, you're up and running. you give the qr code because you pre-registered for the panel you're up and running You don't have to push buttons. you don't have to push buttons You don't do anything. you don't do anything Our churn rate is very low of people leaving the panel. our churn rate is very low of people leaving the panel That's as it stands today. that's as it stands today The excitement that we have of the R&D we're doing, what we can provide advertisers with that panel and market is going to be exceptional. the excitement that we have of the r&d we're doing what we can provide advertisers with that panel and market is going to be exceptional

Speaker 2: If it's so cheap, why wouldn't you make it 50,000? Why wouldn't you ship these things out to anyone who agrees- If it's so cheap, why wouldn't you make it 50,000? if it's so cheap why wouldn't you make it 50,000 Why wouldn't you ship these things out to anyone who agrees- why wouldn't you ship these things out to anyone who agrees-

Speaker 3: Okay. Yeah, sorry Okay. okay Yeah, sorry yeah sorry

Speaker 2: Make it a lot bigger? Make it a lot bigger? make it a lot bigger

Speaker 3: Really good point. We have 5,000 households today, and we are scaling that panel across every single DMA. You really just have to get to statistical significance, and then there's no- Really good point. really good point We have 5,000 households today, and we are scaling that panel across every single DMA. we have 5,000 households today and we are scaling that panel across every single dma You really just have to get to statistical significance, and then there's no- you really just have to get to statistical significance and then there's no-

Speaker 1: In each market. In each market. in each market

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 1: We're statistically significant for national buying. That's the opportunity. We're statistically significant for national buying. we're statistically significant for national buying That's the opportunity. that's the opportunity

Speaker 3: In 35 DMAs. In 35 DMAs. in 35 dmas

Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. yes

Speaker 2: Out of the 220. Out of the 220. out of the 220

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 4: My follow-up question was going to be, is that a large enough panel size to inform pricing strategy? That Attention-Adjusted CPM, right? My follow-up question was going to be, is that a large enough panel size to inform pricing strategy? my follow-up question was going to be is that a large enough panel size to inform pricing strategy That Attention-Adjusted CPM, right? that attention-adjusted cpm right

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Speaker 4: Are you extrapolating? Are you extrapolating? are you extrapolating

Speaker 1: From a national basis, absolutely. From a national basis, absolutely. from a national basis absolutely

Speaker 3: Okay. Let's talk about how we do it. TVision, had we not acquired IRIS.TV, we would never be able to bid and buy in real time. TVision is measuring streaming apps, linear television networks and shows. IRIS.TV is supplying that content ID, which is the show, and that's how we can model onto real time who's watching, how many people are watching, what's the attention, and bid and buy in the RTB stream. If we had not acquired IRIS.TV, we wouldn't be able to do this. If we had not acquired TVision, we would not be able to do this. It was a very focused strategy of IRIS.TV, scale the IRIS.TV system, and now buy TVision and scale the TVision system. Okay. okay Let's talk about how we do it. let's talk about how we do it TVision, had we not acquired IRIS.TV, we would never be able to bid and buy in real time. tvision had we not acquired iris.tv we would never be able to bid and buy in real time TVision is measuring streaming apps, linear television networks and shows. tvision is measuring streaming apps linear television networks and shows IRIS.TV is supplying that content ID, which is the show, and that's how we can model onto real time who's watching, how many people are watching, what's the attention, and bid and buy in the RTB stream. iris.tv is supplying that content id which is the show and that's how we can model onto real time who's watching how many people are watching what's the attention and bid and buy in the rtb stream If we had not acquired IRIS.TV, we wouldn't be able to do this. if we had not acquired iris.tv we wouldn't be able to do this If we had not acquired TVision, we would not be able to do this. if we had not acquired tvision we would not be able to do this It was a very focused strategy of IRIS.TV, scale the IRIS.TV system, and now buy TVision and scale the TVision system. it was a very focused strategy of iris.tv scale the iris.tv system and now buy tvision and scale the tvision system

Speaker 1: Although we're not interested in being in the currency business, we do in effect believe that TVision is going to grow the IRIS.TV carriage. Although we're not interested in being in the currency business, we do in effect believe that TVision is going to grow the IRIS.TV carriage. although we're not interested in being in the currency business we do in effect believe that tvision is going to grow the iris.tv carriage

Speaker 3: Penetration. Penetration. penetration

Speaker 1: Penetration and market because we're going to be. Penetration and market because we're going to be. penetration and market because we're going to be